Anyone own some green belt?
Discussion
elanfan said:
Side issue - from the aerial photo it looks as though one of the neighbours has access to the field as there appears to be a bit of a path. Worth enquiring about whether they have any rights of way over it.
Is that the arc that separates "B from "C"? If it is, that is actually a fence. The ground looks trodden because the horse walks along it. The only access is from the road/drive directly in front of the house, which is a bridleway.Edited by blueST on Monday 8th October 15:54
LooneyTunes said:
Depends where you are, but in Cheshire I know people paying £25 - 50 per horse.
Probably a bit less up here in the Pennines then. Is that per week or month?LooneyTunes said:
If you're leaving horses turned out all the time, then you need to keep quite a low density of animals otherwise the place will get churned up more than you'd probably want (and even then, areas by gates can still end up a bit swampy if you're not careful).
Even with just one horse on it now, it nicely churned up at the gate. I'm guessing it's two horses max.LooneyTunes said:
In terms of mowing, I know one chap who essentially treats about 20 acres as a lawn without an issue. He seems to like nothing more than trundling up and down with his tractor.
This appeals to me a lot too. I don't think a regular garden tractor would be up to the job though, due to the gradient and uneven ground.LooneyTunes said:
Regarding buildings, check out permitted development (especially with respect to field shelters and barns) and temporary structures. Can surprising what you put on agricultural land.
I'm going to ring the planners this week and see if they will give me a bit of off the record guidance. At the very least I'd like somewhere to store a mower and other garden tools securely, and ideally space (not necessarily covered) for one car.Fingers crossed we'll be moving in during winter so I'll have a few months to plot and scheme before grass starts growing.
mx5cl said:
It all depends on the authority, some are quite happy to discuss matters informally and quite openly (although they will be careful to state that it is their own professional opinion, thus no guarantee) and offer advice whilst others will direct you down a more formal route of submitting requests for advice in writing and some may try to charge for the service.
It's the former I'm hoping for at this stage, we'll see how I get on this week.mx5cl said:
In your case I would have thought area A could be considered residential curtilage whilst as you suspect B and C, which have a degree of separation would not. Residential curtilage obviously enjoys certain permitted development rights, as does agricultural land, however this depends on the size of the agricultural unit and I suspect that owing to its size, this land may not enjoy any real agricultural permitted development rights.
In terms of the curtilage, that's exactly how I understand it to be. Prior to the land being bought by the current owner, it was part of a much larger farm so I hold some hope it may have agricultural rights. Which brings me on to...mx5cl said:
If you want further generic information on green belt and the considerations relating to it, google "National Planning Policy Framework" and look at paras 79-81 & 87-90.
From a look at this policy, "buildings for agriculture and forestry" may well be permissible. So that gives me hope that I could have a store for equipment needed for maintaining that piece of land, which would be good. Clearly, it would need checking out thoroughly, but there is hope.Thanks for taking the time to reply
russ_a said:
I would create an Orchard if it was mine, maybe with a nice pond at the bottom.
Possibly a ridiculous notion, but I can well imagine a widely space orchard, with me trundling between the rows of trees on my little tractor. It's fairly exposed up there, so I'm not sure what would grow.blueST said:
mx5cl said:
It all depends on the authority, some are quite happy to discuss matters informally and quite openly (although they will be careful to state that it is their own professional opinion, thus no guarantee) and offer advice whilst others will direct you down a more formal route of submitting requests for advice in writing and some may try to charge for the service.
It's the former I'm hoping for at this stage, we'll see how I get on this week.mx5cl said:
In your case I would have thought area A could be considered residential curtilage whilst as you suspect B and C, which have a degree of separation would not. Residential curtilage obviously enjoys certain permitted development rights, as does agricultural land, however this depends on the size of the agricultural unit and I suspect that owing to its size, this land may not enjoy any real agricultural permitted development rights.
In terms of the curtilage, that's exactly how I understand it to be. Prior to the land being bought by the current owner, it was part of a much larger farm so I hold some hope it may have agricultural rights. Which brings me on to...mx5cl said:
If you want further generic information on green belt and the considerations relating to it, google "National Planning Policy Framework" and look at paras 79-81 & 87-90.
From a look at this policy, "buildings for agriculture and forestry" may well be permissible. So that gives me hope that I could have a store for equipment needed for maintaining that piece of land, which would be good. Clearly, it would need checking out thoroughly, but there is hope.Thanks for taking the time to reply
£25 - 50 is per horse per week - BUT (and sorry if I've misled) this is the going rate with stabling.
Turned out is £15 - 20 per week.
In terms of the space you'd need, very rough rule of thumb is ~1 horse per acre if they're out all the time (although 1 horse to 1.5 acres will do less damage). Better still is to split the plot and rotate the bits you're using.
As for mowing, will a proper tractor fit? Older ones are nigh on indestructible.
Turned out is £15 - 20 per week.
In terms of the space you'd need, very rough rule of thumb is ~1 horse per acre if they're out all the time (although 1 horse to 1.5 acres will do less damage). Better still is to split the plot and rotate the bits you're using.
As for mowing, will a proper tractor fit? Older ones are nigh on indestructible.
Get one! This is my '59 David Brown. Bought it last year for around £1600. Hitch a topper to the back and drag it round. Plus, with the loader, I can pull engines out as well. As said, indestructible. I don't need it, but I want it, and will spend some time over the winter tinkering.
AdeTuono said:
Get one! This is my '59 David Brown. Bought it last year for around £1600. Hitch a topper to the back and drag it round. Plus, with the loader, I can pull engines out as well. As said, indestructible. I don't need it, but I want it, and will spend some time over the winter tinkering.
IIRC
The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
I would have thought greenbelt would be all about the parishjunta council.
The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
I would have thought greenbelt would be all about the parish
1point7bar said:
IIRC
The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
We would be well under 5Ha with that plot, and we wont be running a business growing stuff, so planning permission is likely to be needed then. Even with permitted development, your still supposed to get a certificate of compliance or something, so even that's not totally hassle free.The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
blueST said:
1point7bar said:
IIRC
The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
We would be well under 5Ha with that plot, and we wont be running a business growing stuff, so planning permission is likely to be needed then. Even with permitted development, your still supposed to get a certificate of compliance or something, so even that's not totally hassle free.The agricultural buildings planning exemption is for holdings at one site of more than 5ha.
You can get workshops,barns etc in smaller fields, if you earn a living from farming/forestry and can prove a need.
blueST said:
LooneyTunes said:
As for mowing, will a proper tractor fit? Older ones are nigh on indestructible.
That last sentence has resulted in me spending 4 hours on Farm Trader and Ebay! Yes, a proper tractor will fit. They seem like better value than ride-ons and compact tractors too.
Bits are usually pretty cheap and domestic use means nothing ever gets too stressed on them. Only thing you might want to consider if you're using for the odd job here and there is a battery conditioner.
Not sure if you're aware, but if you're lucky you can sometimes find tracked ones too.... I've no real use for one but may yet pull the trigger. After all, what's not to like about tracks?
LooneyTunes said:
Glad to be of assistance!
Bits are usually pretty cheap and domestic use means nothing ever gets too stressed on them. Only thing you might want to consider if you're using for the odd job here and there is a battery conditioner.
Not sure if you're aware, but if you're lucky you can sometimes find tracked ones too.... I've no real use for one but may yet pull the trigger. After all, what's not to like about tracks?
I was eyeing up the Fordson Super Major in the PH classifieds. It got a front loader and rear forklift and everything!Bits are usually pretty cheap and domestic use means nothing ever gets too stressed on them. Only thing you might want to consider if you're using for the odd job here and there is a battery conditioner.
Not sure if you're aware, but if you're lucky you can sometimes find tracked ones too.... I've no real use for one but may yet pull the trigger. After all, what's not to like about tracks?
mx5cl said:
No problem, it seems to me you have some realistic ideas that on the whole should be feasible, good luck with talking to your local planners, let us know how you get on!
Spurred on by the news we should be in by December :wishfullthinkingsmiley: I spoke to the council planners yesterday. They were very helpful sounding, but basically said I have to work on the assumption they wont let me put any sort of structure up, and then it's down to me to figure out how to convince them otherwise.I wouldn't have any permitted development rights as it's not a working farm. She did say that if I submitted some basic plans of what I wanted to do, they would be happy to come to site, and give me an indication of how I might be able to get permission, or explain why I've got no chance! At the very least I would have to show that absolutely everything was done to minimise the visual impact of the building and that it was a necessity rather than a luxury.
I wanted to talk about some other stuff but didn't have time, will probably leave it until we're in before pursuing any further.
1point7bar said:
I would have thought greenbelt would be all about the parish junta council.
Little evidence of that round where I live, which is predominantly greenbelt. The planning decisions are made at borough council level - the parish council can feed in any objections/support but it is pretty much ignored in my experience.Well, we've been in over a month now and I still haven't a clue what to do with this field. It's very steep, too steep to safely operate a tractor on I would say. So that's my idea of riding round on an old Massey Ferguson canned. I'm going to chop a bunch of ugly connifers down to improve the view but I've no idea how I'm going to keep the grass under control with out keeping animals, which I dont want to do for now.
Anyone know how I go about creating and maintaining it as a wild flowery meadow type of thing? Would it still need periodic mowing?
Anyone know how I go about creating and maintaining it as a wild flowery meadow type of thing? Would it still need periodic mowing?
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