Any private landlords out there?
Discussion
Sorry to hijack the thread but just have a quick question.
Say I just bought a BTL flat with tenants already in it, do I have to take on the existing contract with the tenant?
I'm guessing for obvious reasons the letting agent wants me to sign their agreement but am I correct in saying if I don't sign I could just knock on the door and get them to sign my agreement?
Say I just bought a BTL flat with tenants already in it, do I have to take on the existing contract with the tenant?
I'm guessing for obvious reasons the letting agent wants me to sign their agreement but am I correct in saying if I don't sign I could just knock on the door and get them to sign my agreement?
crazy about cars said:
To be fair I pay around 10% and this covers everything from advertising, placing signs, background checks, 3-monthly property checks, collecting payments,making sure gas+leccy+council tax updated, contract signing, property inspect etc etc. Sure, there are some frustration with the agent but as a busy person (and first time landlord) I find their service mostly helpful. It's just the current tenants now that are major pain in the arse!
Does the 10% include finding a new tenant, and signing them up? Rather then 10% management, and as Months rent as the fee?
FlashmanChop said:
Does the 10% include finding a new tenant, and signing them up? Rather then 10% management, and as Months rent as the fee?
There's a one-off fee of around £300 + VAT charged when finding new tenants (This includes advertising, background checks, contracts, transferring utility+council tax, and moving in sign off and is deducted from first month's rent). If the contract rolls on there's no charges bar the 10% of rent + VAT every month.Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:26
Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:27
crazy about cars said:
There's a one-off fee of around £300 + VAT charged when finding new tenants (This includes advertising, background checks, contracts, transferring utility+council tax, and moving in sign off and is deducted from first month's rent). If the contract rolls on there's no charges bar the 10% of rent + VAT every month.
I took the decison after actually adding up everything over a year, and thinking about how their "management" (or complete lack of) had cost, and all the issues i had ended up dealing with, and decided to self manage and enlist the help of my current agent. Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:26
Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:27
it isnt to everyones taste self managing but i think i speak, or atleast translate "mong" quite well.
FlashmanChop said:
crazy about cars said:
There's a one-off fee of around £300 + VAT charged when finding new tenants (This includes advertising, background checks, contracts, transferring utility+council tax, and moving in sign off and is deducted from first month's rent). If the contract rolls on there's no charges bar the 10% of rent + VAT every month.
I took the decison after actually adding up everything over a year, and thinking about how their "management" (or complete lack of) had cost, and all the issues i had ended up dealing with, and decided to self manage and enlist the help of my current agent. Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:26
Edited by crazy about cars on Wednesday 5th December 13:27
it isnt to everyones taste self managing but i think i speak, or atleast translate "mong" quite well.
As long as you have decent trades people to call on and an odd-job man (in our case, my wife's brother in law) there's really no need for 'managing' agents (most of whom wouldn't be capable of managing to tie their own shoelaces) until you need to advertise for a new tenant (and in our case, only about half our tenancies come that way, we have quite a few that are introduced through the outgoing tenant).
We call our tenants once every few months to see if everything is OK, we encourage them to call us if things need doing/replacing or just if they feel something is getting worn or unreliable. It probably helps that we own quarter houses (1 bed houses with their own entrance and 2 floors) which are always in demand over similarly priced flats it seems so we can pick and choose tenants.
Average tenancy length is 3-4 years for us as a result (it was far lower when we used an agent, most leaving after a year or so).
Quick update... as I've expected the rent never came again this month. I've really had enough of them and have asked the agents to serve 2 months tomorrow.
I've done some reading and apparently the tenants can deny knowledge of being served notice? What is the best thing I can do at this stage to ensure that I've taken all the steps possible so that the tenants vacate property in 2 months?
I have the feeling they will not go easily. Out of the four months I've only got 1 full month's worth of rent in my pocket so far after all deductions so I'm very pissed off to say the least ...
I've done some reading and apparently the tenants can deny knowledge of being served notice? What is the best thing I can do at this stage to ensure that I've taken all the steps possible so that the tenants vacate property in 2 months?
I have the feeling they will not go easily. Out of the four months I've only got 1 full month's worth of rent in my pocket so far after all deductions so I'm very pissed off to say the least ...
OP, let me start by saying that as a fellow landlord - and also a tenant - I feel your pain. But having read this thread with interest, it strikes me that you've not got the resources you need. Right now, you are in business, with an expensive asset and an unreliable income. And you're relying on an internet site for advice, along with phone calls with some girl in the office.
If you plan to keep the house, you need to invest in some better support:
1. Get regular, face to face meetings with someone at the agent who can answer all your questions. Show them you mean business by reading the contract with them, and the tenancy agreement, properly, asking them to explain anything you don't understand.
2. Get a good book on the subject and read it - which is probably more than the agent ever has.
3. Find a local solicitor you like who has good landlord and tenant experience, so you know exactly who to call the minute you have a problem and want advice you can rely on - as you can see already, your mates on the net may not be the resource you need them to be!
4. Do what you probably do when you buy a car - get the facts, ask lots of questions, listen to your instincts and walk away if there's something that doesn't feel right. Don't just wander into a contract and hope everything will be fine cos they "seem like nice people"
... And best of luck!
If you plan to keep the house, you need to invest in some better support:
1. Get regular, face to face meetings with someone at the agent who can answer all your questions. Show them you mean business by reading the contract with them, and the tenancy agreement, properly, asking them to explain anything you don't understand.
2. Get a good book on the subject and read it - which is probably more than the agent ever has.
3. Find a local solicitor you like who has good landlord and tenant experience, so you know exactly who to call the minute you have a problem and want advice you can rely on - as you can see already, your mates on the net may not be the resource you need them to be!
4. Do what you probably do when you buy a car - get the facts, ask lots of questions, listen to your instincts and walk away if there's something that doesn't feel right. Don't just wander into a contract and hope everything will be fine cos they "seem like nice people"
... And best of luck!
They don’t sound like typical “scum” or “chav” tenents per se, but having purchased a new merc (outright or finance), and having thought about it you could try two things:-
Have the a guarantor? I remember reading about making life difficult for these type of people, whom obviously have the money but are playing the system and your weaknesses. Play smart. I had one similar once, so I got the debt with a debt agency who basically sent bailiffs to the guys work, kicked up a bit of a stink. Embarrassed him. And the I rang, and pestered. Wound him up a bit, let him know I was the big man, and the clever one (I am bigger than I am clever by the way…) in the end moneyclaim on line or the current one sorted it out – fooked the credit rating up good and proper with a fat ccj. So next time he thinks he can get a car on finance or get credit checked for a new tenancy he will get a shock.
Oh, and as an aside – you wonder why so many agents fiddle and f
k about with the referencing – well, if you were potentially going to loose out on a months rent as a fee and a nice bit of commission, what would you do….
It strikes me like you need to fob this agent off, and enlist the services of a specialist landlord debt recovery firm. I also think you need to go pay them a visit face to face (I am not sure if you are a powerfully builot Director or not?)
Let me check the name of one I have and will respond here.
Have the a guarantor? I remember reading about making life difficult for these type of people, whom obviously have the money but are playing the system and your weaknesses. Play smart. I had one similar once, so I got the debt with a debt agency who basically sent bailiffs to the guys work, kicked up a bit of a stink. Embarrassed him. And the I rang, and pestered. Wound him up a bit, let him know I was the big man, and the clever one (I am bigger than I am clever by the way…) in the end moneyclaim on line or the current one sorted it out – fooked the credit rating up good and proper with a fat ccj. So next time he thinks he can get a car on finance or get credit checked for a new tenancy he will get a shock.
Oh, and as an aside – you wonder why so many agents fiddle and f
k about with the referencing – well, if you were potentially going to loose out on a months rent as a fee and a nice bit of commission, what would you do….It strikes me like you need to fob this agent off, and enlist the services of a specialist landlord debt recovery firm. I also think you need to go pay them a visit face to face (I am not sure if you are a powerfully builot Director or not?)
Let me check the name of one I have and will respond here.
Also, apart from being a handy resource anyway, http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/ have a directory if you're looking for baliffs etc.
Thanks for the reply guys. I have bought the recommended book off Amazon and have been on the forum suggested. I am just very nervous (and stressed) now due to Christmas approaching and finances are killing me.
The are not the typical chav or scum but of a certain demographic. Seemed nice enough when I met them and both their sons have jobs at a major manufacturing company. I just suspect they are doing this because they can! Both their sons have cars (one of them is the Renault Megane 225) and the dad recently upgraded his Qashqai to the new A Class so I don't think they are hard up. Their actions and lies are just rubbing it in my face!
I guess this is a good awakening for me as my first tenants were lovely so I wasn't prepared for the worse...
As for the agents, to be very fair to them they are doing what they are paid to do. It might not be top class but for my budget I think they cover everything I needed for a rental management agent. I will be communicating more with the agents now to ensure everything is done to get the tenants out by February!
The are not the typical chav or scum but of a certain demographic. Seemed nice enough when I met them and both their sons have jobs at a major manufacturing company. I just suspect they are doing this because they can! Both their sons have cars (one of them is the Renault Megane 225) and the dad recently upgraded his Qashqai to the new A Class so I don't think they are hard up. Their actions and lies are just rubbing it in my face!
I guess this is a good awakening for me as my first tenants were lovely so I wasn't prepared for the worse...
As for the agents, to be very fair to them they are doing what they are paid to do. It might not be top class but for my budget I think they cover everything I needed for a rental management agent. I will be communicating more with the agents now to ensure everything is done to get the tenants out by February!
A little update if people are still interested. Current tenants has now reached the < 2 month mark. After speaking to senior management (well her manager :P) things finally go into gear. Section 21 was served via recorded post as requested and I'm pressing to serve Section 8 as soon as it's possible.
Agent phone me today and told me they finally got through the tenants (well their daughter). Apparently they have been rejecting calls from agent so she(agent) tried using unregistered number which got through. Apparently they are pretty shocked that they have to vacate and promise to keep payments up to date this time. All sorts of excuses under the sun were given to agent but enough is enough. Hopefully they will vacate without much fuss in Feb but I'm not counting on that...
Current agent is a big franchise and they have a tie in with local property solicitors so I'm deciding to stick to them for now until this whole nightmare with current tenant is over.
Agent phone me today and told me they finally got through the tenants (well their daughter). Apparently they have been rejecting calls from agent so she(agent) tried using unregistered number which got through. Apparently they are pretty shocked that they have to vacate and promise to keep payments up to date this time. All sorts of excuses under the sun were given to agent but enough is enough. Hopefully they will vacate without much fuss in Feb but I'm not counting on that...
Current agent is a big franchise and they have a tie in with local property solicitors so I'm deciding to stick to them for now until this whole nightmare with current tenant is over.
I am just about to rent my property out and this thread has convinced me to self manage the property (first time landlord). I can't help but agree that people are all paying 10-15% for the loosest form of management possible. It seems you're contracted for months and months when really, the only useful things are the tenancy agreement set up, tenant finding, and utilities and council tax ownership handover..... Of this the party you have the strongest contractual bond to, are the letting agents who have no obligations to the tenant (in the instance above, anyway) as the TA is between tenant and landlord.
I, much the same as you OP, am too soft for my own good, and even though you've been messed around royally, you are still tentative about serving notices at Christmas. I accept that when the tenant is a good one, then as a landlord you shall be helpful and proactive as possible, but as soon as payment is missed, I really have to echo the sentiment of a few posters and say that money is money, and technically it is you paying a mortgage not them - regardless of sickness/employment/social circumstances changing. They are technically taking your money.... God forbid you miss a council tax payment - you'd be n court before thy could spell the word, and you claiming your standing order is broken etc tc wouldn't change tht!
Keep us posted please on how you're getting on! Hopefully you've had a decent Christmas, regardless!
I, much the same as you OP, am too soft for my own good, and even though you've been messed around royally, you are still tentative about serving notices at Christmas. I accept that when the tenant is a good one, then as a landlord you shall be helpful and proactive as possible, but as soon as payment is missed, I really have to echo the sentiment of a few posters and say that money is money, and technically it is you paying a mortgage not them - regardless of sickness/employment/social circumstances changing. They are technically taking your money.... God forbid you miss a council tax payment - you'd be n court before thy could spell the word, and you claiming your standing order is broken etc tc wouldn't change tht!
Keep us posted please on how you're getting on! Hopefully you've had a decent Christmas, regardless!
samrr said:
Sorry to hijack the thread but just have a quick question.
Say I just bought a BTL flat with tenants already in it, do I have to take on the existing contract with the tenant?
I'm guessing for obvious reasons the letting agent wants me to sign their agreement but am I correct in saying if I don't sign I could just knock on the door and get them to sign my agreement?
Sorry for the late response, missed the post.Say I just bought a BTL flat with tenants already in it, do I have to take on the existing contract with the tenant?
I'm guessing for obvious reasons the letting agent wants me to sign their agreement but am I correct in saying if I don't sign I could just knock on the door and get them to sign my agreement?
Probably too late and assuming the tenants were on an AST. The existing contract remains in place and continues. It transfers over to the new new landlord (including all outstanding liabilities and obligations). If any deposit has been paid this should also have been transfered to you and newly protected. No new agreement is required. A signed copy of the existing one should have been passed to you as part of the property purchase.
If the tenants are on an SPT then I would (assuming you wish to 'keep them') offer them a new [AST] contract of your own.
crazy about cars said:
Agent phone me today and told me they finally got through the tenants (well their daughter). Apparently they have been rejecting calls from agent so she(agent) tried using unregistered number which got through. Apparently they are pretty shocked that they have to vacate and promise to keep payments up to date this time. All sorts of excuses under the sun were given to agent but enough is enough.
The tenants are either liars or have some form of mental shortcoming. It does amaze me when tenants seem shocked that the rent needs to be paid. Almost as much as when a landlord is agrived that a tenant leaves when the tenancy ends.crazy about cars said:
Quick update... as I've expected the rent never came again this month. I've really had enough of them and have asked the agents to serve 2 months tomorrow.
I've done some reading and apparently the tenants can deny knowledge of being served notice? What is the best thing I can do at this stage to ensure that I've taken all the steps possible so that the tenants vacate property in 2 months?
I have the feeling they will not go easily. Out of the four months I've only got 1 full month's worth of rent in my pocket so far after all deductions so I'm very pissed off to say the least ...
Firstly request copies of the paperwork the agents have sent out to the tenant, if they have sent it recorded delivery then I think your safe, however hand delivering a notice along with a witness is the best idea, also getting them to sign a receipt of notice letter is advisable. Most go within a couple of weeks of receiving notice but I've had a few hang on until the bailiffs come knocking.I've done some reading and apparently the tenants can deny knowledge of being served notice? What is the best thing I can do at this stage to ensure that I've taken all the steps possible so that the tenants vacate property in 2 months?
I have the feeling they will not go easily. Out of the four months I've only got 1 full month's worth of rent in my pocket so far after all deductions so I'm very pissed off to say the least ...
Its worse with council tenants, I had to issue section 21 on a couple who were 3 months behind in rent, and they went to the council and the council told them to stay put until the bailiffs arrived, otherwise they would be classed as voluntarily homeless and they wouldn't get another place. The council also advised them on all the possible things they could do to overturn the notice including harassment and trying to find flaws in the paperwork. The tenants tried to make harrasment stick even though I had only called them 3 times during the 2 months period for routine maintenance. Bailiffs along with the police had to eventually get them out.
crazy about cars said:
Agent phone me today and told me they finally got through the tenants (well their daughter). Apparently they have been rejecting calls from agent so she(agent) tried using unregistered number which got through. Apparently they are pretty shocked that they have to vacate and promise to keep payments up to date this time. All sorts of excuses under the sun were given to agent but enough is enough.
Sadly I suspect they have decided to stay there as long as possible rent free, and will only go when you make it harder for them to stay than it is for them to leave. Section 8 now IMHO and don't take any prisoners.Simpo Two said:
crazy about cars said:
Agent phone me today and told me they finally got through the tenants (well their daughter). Apparently they have been rejecting calls from agent so she(agent) tried using unregistered number which got through. Apparently they are pretty shocked that they have to vacate and promise to keep payments up to date this time. All sorts of excuses under the sun were given to agent but enough is enough.
Sadly I suspect they have decided to stay there as long as possible rent free, and will only go when you make it harder for them to stay than it is for them to leave. Section 8 now IMHO and don't take any prisoners.These people have no intention of ever paying rent again, because they have, frankly, discovered that they don't need to.
The temptation to save several hundred pound a month rent and instead buy a flash new car is irresistable.
The best you can do is hope that they are not trying for a council house, and apply the law as carefully and quickly as you can, which sadly will cost more than £600, expect to be considerably out of pocket before the UK housing law has finished with you.
Then cross your fingers that the next lot actually pay the rent. The UK is setup for landlords to take a fall, so I'd suggest insuring against it wherever possible is the best idea.
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