Best Wifi enabled thermostat
Discussion
Had a Nest 3 fitted a couple of weeks ago, seems to be reliable atm, learning feature is working well as we dont seem to be fiddling with the stat as much as with the old wireless system we had previously.
We had it fitted by Nest who sub it out to an electrician, he was saying he has fitted Hive, Tado etc and Nest seem to give the least amount of trouble.
We had it fitted by Nest who sub it out to an electrician, he was saying he has fitted Hive, Tado etc and Nest seem to give the least amount of trouble.
dmiller said:
Does anyone have a honeywell evohome setup? What's it like? Do the motorised trvs just work as they advertise? Is the app nice to use?
I don't have mains gas and due to various reasons have to use the 47kg propane tanks so the savings if it works would be good!
David.
I'll let you know after tomorrow, when it's all being fitted!I don't have mains gas and due to various reasons have to use the 47kg propane tanks so the savings if it works would be good!
David.
We are having 16 rads with 12 zones, wet underfloor heating and Megaflo hot water control being done.
The hot water and UFH have been an utter pig. WHilst fitting the standard thermostat and radiator control was dead easy, a Megaflo hot water cylinder has no dry sensor pocket for the hot water sensor, so my plumber threw his hands up in dismay, and a Honeyywell specialist is being paid to do it. Similarly the underfloor heating controller instructions are utterly rubbish - they don't bother telling you that it operates via the valves on the heating manifold, and a plumber who has never fitted one will throw his hands up in dismay, not understanding how it is meant to operate the more usual motorised mnaster zone valve. It isn't - it actually allows fine control by allowing the different loops on the manifold to be activated by different timers/temps - but Honeywell neither tell you this, nor that you need to buy separate actuators for each of these valves, nor what spec these actuator have to be (4mm stroke, 240V in case you're interested).
Frankly, despite being touted as an easy-fit solution, it is not. Expect to pay an installer to fit it. Or do the online training yourself and be prepared for some wiring work.
So far I have not tested most of the functionality as have not fitted most of the system. The Honeywell Total Connect 2 app has been down once for planned maintenance for about half an hour - it is good, but not as nice looking as the Nest App, and sometimes takes a while to load up your system (30 seconds or so).
If you want zoned heating control and proper hot water control, this looks like the only game in town (LightwaveRF do something, but I tried it a couple of years ago and found it really unreliable). If you have a combi boiler and don't want individual room control, apart from the usual manual TRVs, and don't have wet underfloor heating, just go with Nest. I have it in my other place, and it has been faultless for 2 years and easy to use.
a single Nest thermostat of course does not give you the fine control of multiple zones, and is not a "heat calling" system. Evohome is - you can call heat to one room if you want from a local stat (including the rad valves). Nest turns on everything from the main stat, and you shut down the rooms you don't want. You can turn it to a zoned heat-calling system, but need an additional thermostat for each zone you want as a heat-calling zone - this gets expensive for more than a couple of zones.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 30th November 11:12
dmiller said:
Does anyone have a honeywell evohome setup? What's it like? Do the motorised trvs just work as they advertise? Is the app nice to use?
I don't have mains gas and due to various reasons have to use the 47kg propane tanks so the savings if it works would be good!
David.
Hi David, I don't have mains gas and due to various reasons have to use the 47kg propane tanks so the savings if it works would be good!
David.
We have Evohome in our house and it performs well - I wanted this rather than Nest or Hive as the Missus works from home everyday so we have the system set to heat only the areas she needs.
The motorised TRVs are controlled by the base unit and yes they work as advertised. I can hear them adjusting every now and the to regulate the temperature.
Both the base unit and iPhone app are easy and intuitive. I use the base unit for detailed programming - what to do with each zone (each TRV or group of TRVs) throughout the day and through the week - and the iPhone app for quick adjustments as the phone will always be close by.
I don't have comparative data for before and after fitting because our house has changed significantly in that time with the installation of double glazing and insulation etc that was lacking previously. I would suggest though that something not being heated will use less energy than something that is being heated - so surely this will save gas.
Hope this helps and happy to try and answer specifics.
Cheers, Steve.
I have Evohome with three UFH zones and nine radiator zones with 12 controlled TRVs and it works exceptionally well. Monitoring room temperatures the system keeps radiator heated rooms within 1 degree of the set point and UFH is pretty much spot on. It pulses the boiler on and off and this seems to generate the correct flow temperatures to keep the radiators warm.
Remote control is possible via the Honeywell app.
If you are happy to wire a central heating controller it's simple enough to install.
It doesn't do any presence detection or geofencing though - if you have an unpredictable schedule and you want to automate that then it might be worth considering other systems.
I'm not sure whether you'd save money compared to turning off TRVs manually, but it does make things a lot easier when you only want to heat certain rooms at night etc.
Remote control is possible via the Honeywell app.
If you are happy to wire a central heating controller it's simple enough to install.
It doesn't do any presence detection or geofencing though - if you have an unpredictable schedule and you want to automate that then it might be worth considering other systems.
I'm not sure whether you'd save money compared to turning off TRVs manually, but it does make things a lot easier when you only want to heat certain rooms at night etc.
essayer said:
It doesn't do any presence detection or geofencing though - if you have an unpredictable schedule and you want to automate that then it might be worth considering other systems.
I think that you can bodge this functionality if you have an Android phone by using the IFTTT app, that allows Android geofencing to talk to your Evohome controller through the app pathway.essayer said:
If you are happy to wire a central heating controller it's simple enough to install.
I still don't agree with this. I'm no wiring slouch, and neither is my plumber. Installing the underfloor heating controller and hot water control (to a Megaflo) is not intuitive at all. Harry Flashman said:
I still don't agree with this. I'm no wiring slouch, and neither is my plumber. Installing the underfloor heating controller and hot water control (to a Megaflo) is not intuitive at all.
I didn't find the UFH too bad, it was a straight swap in a system that already had Polypipe actuators and a pump/valve fitted.Megaflo is certainly an oddity though, luckily the Vaillant cylinder has a NTC pocket and simple series wiring on the overheat stat.
EvoHome seems like a no brainer to me and is the one I want to go for eventually, I don't even understand what Nest is supposed to do over and above the standard timer already fitted to the boiler.
With EvoHome, being able to control individual rooms has got to be the best bit? In the morning I may want the bedrooms and kitchen to be warm when we get up, but not the living room or hallway or whatever. In the evening I may want the living room and my son's room to be heated but not everywhere else. Being able to control all of that without having to go round the TRV's and manually change them multiple times a day sounds a godsend.
What does Nest do exactly? It's a learning thermostat, what does that mean? So it figures out I like the temp to be 18c and then what, continually heats the house to 18c? The geo-fencing stuff would probably be okay but I work from home and there's usually someone always in so would rarely be used.
With EvoHome, being able to control individual rooms has got to be the best bit? In the morning I may want the bedrooms and kitchen to be warm when we get up, but not the living room or hallway or whatever. In the evening I may want the living room and my son's room to be heated but not everywhere else. Being able to control all of that without having to go round the TRV's and manually change them multiple times a day sounds a godsend.
What does Nest do exactly? It's a learning thermostat, what does that mean? So it figures out I like the temp to be 18c and then what, continually heats the house to 18c? The geo-fencing stuff would probably be okay but I work from home and there's usually someone always in so would rarely be used.
Harry Flashman said:
six wheels said:
Hi David,
We have Evohome in our house and it performs well - I wanted this rather than Nest or Hive as the Missus works from home everyday so we have the system set to heat only the areas she needs.
Same reason I'm fitting it!We have Evohome in our house and it performs well - I wanted this rather than Nest or Hive as the Missus works from home everyday so we have the system set to heat only the areas she needs.
In answer to the guy who asked; we've had it a while, this is the 2nd winter. I love it. We have a large open plan downstairs which has 6 radiators in it, which is one 'zone' called Open Plan. Most other rooms have one or two radiators in, and each is a zone. You can program each zone separately, with multiple on and off times, and the hot water as well.
So the kids room only comes on for one hour a day, just before they go to bed, to get some warmth into the room before bedtime. The other 23 hours its off. We only heat the rooms we are in, during the times we are in them. There's a quick button to turn everything off which we do when we are out for the day, and you can turn it all back on from your phone when you are 30 mins from home (for instance).
The only thing it is missing for me is the ability to know we are both out (from our phones) and do that 'complete switch off' automatically.
I've had Evohome installed in my new home after extensive research. I've yet to move in but have had the heating up and running for a couple of months now and it's everything I expected it to be. I have 4 underfloor heating zones and all 12 zones used for other spaces I may need a second controller or just use regular TRV's for the other areas.
It controls the temperature perfectly and has easy and intuitive controls via the app and touchscreen panel. The installer initially put in a third relay for the UFH to control a motorised valve for just the UFH and couldn't understand why the heating relay wouldn't work; the system only supports 2 relays, heating and hot water, shall, he wasted so much time until he worked this out.
Overall it is a great system which does what it is designed to do. I'll probably never recoup the initial outlay but for me it was a decision based on comfort and convenience rather thanot efficiency
It controls the temperature perfectly and has easy and intuitive controls via the app and touchscreen panel. The installer initially put in a third relay for the UFH to control a motorised valve for just the UFH and couldn't understand why the heating relay wouldn't work; the system only supports 2 relays, heating and hot water, shall, he wasted so much time until he worked this out.
Overall it is a great system which does what it is designed to do. I'll probably never recoup the initial outlay but for me it was a decision based on comfort and convenience rather thanot efficiency
Wow thanks for all the responses! Mine would be a modest setup compared to some of the setups here! It's a four bedroom ex council end terrace built in the 40s. We had coal heating until last year when the back boiler burst and now have a tanked propane combi boiler.
Currently we have the heating setup so that it comes on for a few hours in the morning, lunch time and bedtime for the little ones and heats whatever room the thermostat has been left in to 21 degrees and then shuts off. The house is occupied all day (two young kids and a third one on the way) but really during the day only the living room/kitchen and bathroom are used but we end up heating the whole house.
I was hoping to start with four trvs and the thermostat and upgrade each month until all 8 radiators are done. I would be using the trvs to set each room as a zone and only heat the ones we are using.
How noisy are the trvs? Would they wake a sleeping toddler? Would they struggle to work behind a radiator cover?
I don't really see the benefits of nest etc as the only way I can see to zone the heating is to use wireless trvs. That limits me to the tado and the honeywell systems from what I can see?
Thanks for all the help so far!
David.
Currently we have the heating setup so that it comes on for a few hours in the morning, lunch time and bedtime for the little ones and heats whatever room the thermostat has been left in to 21 degrees and then shuts off. The house is occupied all day (two young kids and a third one on the way) but really during the day only the living room/kitchen and bathroom are used but we end up heating the whole house.
I was hoping to start with four trvs and the thermostat and upgrade each month until all 8 radiators are done. I would be using the trvs to set each room as a zone and only heat the ones we are using.
How noisy are the trvs? Would they wake a sleeping toddler? Would they struggle to work behind a radiator cover?
I don't really see the benefits of nest etc as the only way I can see to zone the heating is to use wireless trvs. That limits me to the tado and the honeywell systems from what I can see?
Thanks for all the help so far!
David.
I have been reading this with interest as have recently moved house, have a number of rooms we seldom use and are out at work most of the day / occasionally work from home (so the room by room controllability appeals in a way that Nest, etc doesn't. It would be 12 zones and 15 TRVs with the small complication of a Megaflow so, if we go forward, we'll have to see how to link into it.
I have a seemingly simple / dumb question around the TRVs; I assume these are powered and I was wondering how long the batteries last in the real world and how hard they are to change?
I have a seemingly simple / dumb question around the TRVs; I assume these are powered and I was wondering how long the batteries last in the real world and how hard they are to change?
The Evohome motorised actuators are supposed to be the least noisy of any made, but having said that you will still hear them and some people or youngsters may be disturbed by them if they are being used in a quiet environment.
There does seem to be some variation in the level of noise they produce and that can be down to the valve they are fitted to, the age of that valve and the tolerances in the build quality of the valves and actuators.
If you think the noise might be an issue I would recommend getting the installer to demonstrate one before you splash out on a big installation. You might also want to consider swapping to new valves if your rads/valves are quite old so you get all the disruption of draining down the system over and done with in one go.
You can't cover the standard actuators completely as they have built-in temperature sensors, but if you had one or two particularly noise-sensitive zones (such as a nursery or bedroom) then you can plug in an external sensor or use a wireless sensor which would communicate directly with the controller. Then you could cover the actuator and probably make it near-silent. You'd have to do it in such a way that it wouldn't interfere with the wireless signal strength too much of course.
In most people's experience the batteries last up to 12 months, sometimes longer. It all depends on how the system is setup and how often temperature adjustments are being made. In my mum's house we have to have some radiators on almost 24 hrs/day and the original batteries on those actuators lasted about 9 months, but I've now replaced them with non rechargeable lithiums so I expect they'll go at least a year from now on. Low battery warnings do appear on the controller but not on the mobile app. which was a bit of a drawback for me trying to monitor my mum's heating from a distance.
There does seem to be some variation in the level of noise they produce and that can be down to the valve they are fitted to, the age of that valve and the tolerances in the build quality of the valves and actuators.
If you think the noise might be an issue I would recommend getting the installer to demonstrate one before you splash out on a big installation. You might also want to consider swapping to new valves if your rads/valves are quite old so you get all the disruption of draining down the system over and done with in one go.
You can't cover the standard actuators completely as they have built-in temperature sensors, but if you had one or two particularly noise-sensitive zones (such as a nursery or bedroom) then you can plug in an external sensor or use a wireless sensor which would communicate directly with the controller. Then you could cover the actuator and probably make it near-silent. You'd have to do it in such a way that it wouldn't interfere with the wireless signal strength too much of course.
In most people's experience the batteries last up to 12 months, sometimes longer. It all depends on how the system is setup and how often temperature adjustments are being made. In my mum's house we have to have some radiators on almost 24 hrs/day and the original batteries on those actuators lasted about 9 months, but I've now replaced them with non rechargeable lithiums so I expect they'll go at least a year from now on. Low battery warnings do appear on the controller but not on the mobile app. which was a bit of a drawback for me trying to monitor my mum's heating from a distance.
Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Thursday 1st December 09:45
dmiller said:
How noisy are the trvs? Would they wake a sleeping toddler? Would they struggle to work behind a radiator cover?
I can hear mine only when a room is otherwise silent, but I wouldn't consider them noisy. Based on the performance of mine, if this level of noise is enough to wake a toddler then one is doomed anyway
To echo a previous poster, a lot will depend on the valve in use (recommend Honeywell valves as the TRVs were designed to work with them) but also consider how often the valve may adjust. If a room is well insulated and holds heat well, how often should a TRV adjust flow?
I've replaced one set of batteries in a year - in the room at has the highest temperature variation throughout the day.
Genius idea about the remote temperature sensor to enable use of a radiator cover but that's a further cost per room (I think £30-60 depending on which you choose).
Cheers, Steve.
We've recently moved in to an old 1750's cottage out in the sticks and have an oil fired boiler (Grant Vortex external - about 5 years old, replaced before we moved in 18 months ago).
We're in the process of modernising our 3 bed cottage and will be replacing all the old existing radiators with modern ones (2 already changed during bathroom and office conversion - both kick out substantially more heat than the previous ones!). I'd also like to go down the route of adding a smart thermostat, either Nest or Hive.
Has anyone added a smart thermostat to an oil fired central heating system? any recommendations other than Nest or Hive?
Cheers muchly.
We're in the process of modernising our 3 bed cottage and will be replacing all the old existing radiators with modern ones (2 already changed during bathroom and office conversion - both kick out substantially more heat than the previous ones!). I'd also like to go down the route of adding a smart thermostat, either Nest or Hive.
Has anyone added a smart thermostat to an oil fired central heating system? any recommendations other than Nest or Hive?
Cheers muchly.
I don't think Nest are well suited to the typical "heating season" only hot water radiant systems most common in the U.K.
They are a product designed in the US where the vast majority of homes have forced air heating and cooling with integrated whole home humidifiers.
For these types of systems they work very well and are useful all year round as you have both heating and cooling seasons. So you do see quite chunky energy savings with them, especially if you tie them into your utility provider as they can shut down at peak times which you get credits for. Cleverly they anticipate this and cool/heat the house a few degrees more than normal in advance to ensure you stay comfortable for the hour or so during shutdown. You can of course override it if you want.
The humidifier control is also useful as it can call for humidity outside of the usual function of it on only during a heat cycle. Winter time Rh levels in the US can be brutally low so it's a necessity to have a good control over it.
From what I've seen in the U.K. versions, they are the same core unit but bodged to work with hot water radiant systems. So a large part of their true functionality is just not exploited, or even useful.
They are a product designed in the US where the vast majority of homes have forced air heating and cooling with integrated whole home humidifiers.
For these types of systems they work very well and are useful all year round as you have both heating and cooling seasons. So you do see quite chunky energy savings with them, especially if you tie them into your utility provider as they can shut down at peak times which you get credits for. Cleverly they anticipate this and cool/heat the house a few degrees more than normal in advance to ensure you stay comfortable for the hour or so during shutdown. You can of course override it if you want.
The humidifier control is also useful as it can call for humidity outside of the usual function of it on only during a heat cycle. Winter time Rh levels in the US can be brutally low so it's a necessity to have a good control over it.
From what I've seen in the U.K. versions, they are the same core unit but bodged to work with hot water radiant systems. So a large part of their true functionality is just not exploited, or even useful.
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