Best Wifi enabled thermostat

[RockyBalboa]

Has anyone used OpenTherm with Evohome?

Is is it possible to control an entire floor as single zone using just one HR92 as opposed to HR92s on all the rads on that floor?

[Trustmeimadoctor]

I'm using open therm with evolution home. No you can't really do what you want you need TRV'S on all radiators other wise as soon as one calls for heat they would all get hot and possibly the room you wanted heating would need more than the other so it would be fighting lots

[RockyBalboa]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

I'm using open therm with evolution home. No you can't really do what you want you need TRV'S on all radiators other wise as soon as one calls for heat they would all get hot and possibly the room you wanted heating would need more than the other so it would be fighting lots

What boiler is that with? How easy was it to set up?

I may have an entire floor unused and the set up I have has a zone valve for each floor, hence my question regarding controlling an entire floor.

[essayer]

RockyBalboa said:

I may have an entire floor unused and the set up I have has a zone valve for each floor, hence my question regarding controlling an entire floor.

That's fine, a BDR91 controls the zone valve - you just need a temperature sensor (Y87/DTS92E) to monitor the overall zone temperature, then set TRVs to suit.

Make sure the zone valve doesn't fire the boiler when open.

[Trustmeimadoctor]

A UK vailant combi boiler it doesn't support it officially but easy enough to get working

[ben5575]

Really helpful thread. Daft laddy question (or three) if I may...

I will be replacing combi with new combi this year. Currently on/off with manual trv control as I work from home so only need to heat certain rooms at different times.

So obviously I *need* a smart system based on connected TRVs....

Q1: If I install smart TRVs, presumably a smart room thermostat is part of the package. If room thermostat is located in say the hall (or wherever), does the temp setting on this thermostat override the temp settings on the smart TRVs? I'm presuming not, but I haven't quite understood the logic yet. How does this apparent conflict work?

Q2: Heatmeiser neo system mentioned earlier and I can see that this has room thermostats in different rooms/zones. But how does this control the temp in the room if there is no connected TRV on the rad (or is there?)

Q3: Anybody used Netamo (Echo compatible)? It's designed by Philippe Starck and I'm a fanboi so hard to resist this being my default choice...

[robsdesk]

ben5575 said:

Really helpful thread. Daft laddy question (or three) if I may...

I will be replacing combi with new combi this year. Currently on/off with manual trv control as I work from home so only need to heat certain rooms at different times.

So obviously I *need* a smart system based on connected TRVs....

Q1: If I install smart TRVs, presumably a smart room thermostat is part of the package. If room thermostat is located in say the hall (or wherever), does the temp setting on this thermostat override the temp settings on the smart TRVs? I'm presuming not, but I haven't quite understood the logic yet. How does this apparent conflict work?

Q2: Heatmeiser neo system mentioned earlier and I can see that this has room thermostats in different rooms/zones. But how does this control the temp in the room if there is no connected TRV on the rad (or is there?)

Q3: Anybody used Netamo (Echo compatible)? It's designed by Philippe Starck and I'm a fanboi so hard to resist this being my default choice...

With tado you group devices together to form zones (rooms in my case), where you have more than one TRV or a TRV & smart thermostat you nominate which is the master & responsible for temperature setting & measuring for that zone.

Seems to all be working well here so far, the house is a comfortable consistent temperature - never too hot or cold.

[ben5575]

robsdesk said:

With tado you group devices together to form zones (rooms in my case), where you have more than one TRV or a TRV & smart thermostat you nominate which is the master & responsible for temperature setting & measuring for that zone.

Seems to all be working well here so far, the house is a comfortable consistent temperature - never too hot or cold.

I would also be grouping & zoning TRV's into rooms as well.

I understand (perhaps incorrectly?) that the TRV's themselves have a thermostat on them (so that you can set them 22 degrees or whatever). I was just trying to figure how, if you have say 4 zones for bedrooms for example, with TRVs set to say 19/20/21/22 degrees respectively for arguments sake, with the temps being controlled by the TRVs, but have the main smart thermostat in the hall set to say 16 degrees, it all works without conflicting.

From your answer (thank you ), it sounds like you have (or I will need) a smart thermostat in each zone (room) as well as the smart TRVs? Which would make more logical sense (and cost a lot more!)

[maniac886]

ben5575 said:

I would also be grouping & zoning TRV's into rooms as well.

I understand (perhaps incorrectly?) that the TRV's themselves have a thermostat on them (so that you can set them 22 degrees or whatever). I was just trying to figure how, if you have say 4 zones for bedrooms for example, with TRVs set to say 19/20/21/22 degrees respectively for arguments sake, with the temps being controlled by the TRVs, but have the main smart thermostat in the hall set to say 16 degrees, it all works without conflicting.

From your answer (thank you ), it sounds like you have (or I will need) a smart thermostat in each zone (room) as well as the smart TRVs? Which would make more logical sense (and cost a lot more!)

The tado TRV's have thermostats in them - in your example in the first paragraph you would have 4 zones for each individual bedroom and then create a separate zone for the hall. If you have a radiator in that hall then you would link the smart tado TRV to the current smart thermostat that sits on the wall so they work together within one zone. You don't need to purchase an additional smart thermostat for the rooms you are buying smart trvs because they are thermostats.

[Jambo85]

ben5575 said:

Really helpful thread. Daft laddy question (or three) if I may...

...

Q2: Heatmeiser neo system mentioned earlier and I can see that this has room thermostats in different rooms/zones. But how does this control the temp in the room if there is no connected TRV on the rad (or is there?)

You're quite right - and Heatmiser are a bit quiet on this front, which is a shame. I think they designed it for the application of wet underfloor heating, which already has all the stats tied back to actuators on a manifold.

I took this idea and applied it to individual radiators - I changed my TRVs for ones with M20 threads on them (dirt cheap from screwfix), threw away the TRV heads and replaced them with underfloor heating actuators - I used these ones:

http://www.theunderfloorsuperstore.co.uk/emmeti-23...

You HAVE to use the 4 wire ones as you need to tie back the switch wires to the boiler for heat demand, or you can use 2 wire ones and an UFH wiring centre, I am told.

Pros are no batteries and potentially lower cost, and fairly off the shelf type spares if the actuators break. Cons are relatively invasive wiring. Heatmiser have the air system now which reduces the wiring somewhat, but this type of application would need some more thought...

[ben5575]

maniac886 said:

The tado TRV's have thermostats in them - in your example in the first paragraph you would have 4 zones for each individual bedroom and then create a separate zone for the hall. If you have a radiator in that hall then you would link the smart tado TRV to the current smart thermostat that sits on the wall so they work together within one zone. You don't need to purchase an additional smart thermostat for the rooms you are buying smart trvs because they are thermostats.

Ahhh right, I've got you now; that makes perfect sense. Thanks for the help

Jambo85 said:

You're quite right - and Heatmiser are a bit quiet on this front, which is a shame. I think they designed it for the application of wet underfloor heating, which already has all the stats tied back to actuators on a manifold.

Pros are no batteries and potentially lower cost, and fairly off the shelf type spares if the actuators break. Cons are relatively invasive wiring. Heatmiser have the air system now which reduces the wiring somewhat, but this type of application would need some more thought...

That makes sense as well. Thanks.

[Andehh]

caterhamboy said:

Harry Flashman said:

OK folk, so one week of living with Evohome:

Pros:
- The fine control on the system is great, with individual rooms getting heat when you want them.
- The motorised TRVs are really quiet when they adjust.
- Temp readings seem pretty good so far (although see below regarding bathrooms with electric underfloor heating)).
- The fine control on the setup screen is good, allowing you to do things like control the hot water temp in the Megaflo. We have been having a smelly hot water issue in our house (was derelict for 3 years, and we used the Megaflo that came with it, so it may have been a bit skanky). Have dealt with it (so far) by turning the boiler up and also setting the hot water temp to 70 degrees (instead of the usual 60) to heat the hot water very high. Now set back to 60. All done from the base controller.
- The kit is nicely engineered.

Cons
- Very expensive. At £1300 + £350 fitting/setup for my system in a 5 bed, 4 bath house with UFH and 12 heat zones, it will likely take years to pay back compared to something like a Nest with TRVs.
- If you have a Megaflo, fitting it is a sod. This is because these cylinders don’t have a dry sensor pocket and have non-intuitive controls. You do not want to accidentally disconnect the overall safety shutdown on them while fitting the Evohome. Get a Honeywell engineer to do it – my usual plumber was scratching his head over the whole setup.
- Same for the underfloor heating controller. Not at all intuitive.
- Honeywell’s installation instructions are balls. Useless to an informed amateur like me, and next to useless to a plumber/heating engineer who has never fitted one before. I suspect that this is so that you have to use a Honeywell engineer, at that cost
- Honeywell’s phone helpline is hopeless as you can never get through. And they take days to respond to e-mails, or sometimes don’t bother at all.
- The base controller looks a bit cheap and plasticky compared with a Nest/Tado etc.
- The Total Connect 2 App was initially a bit rubbish and down for planned maintenance. Has been fine for the last week, though.
- The fine control needs careful programming, and you need to learn the system. It is nothing like as intuitive as, say, Nest, and there does not seem to be a single button option to just turn the whole house on from the app to the same temperature. You can turn it all off with one button, but not turn it all on with one button.
- Heat control in bathrooms can get confused easily by electric underfloor heating that is not part of the Honeywell app. I walked into the loft wetroom yesterday morning and it was like a sauna as both electric UFH and Evohome controlled rad were blasting heat. I turned down the UFH for this morning and all seemed fine.
- It won’t currently control electric UFH, so all of the bathrooms are run on a separate control system for the UFH, and Evohome on the rads. Clunky.

I would agree with the post above that Nest is inadequate for a house. I have it in my flat, with some manual TRVs, and it works just fine. Evohome obviously suits a complex and large heating system better than Nest. But it is expensive, complex and hard to set up as a DIYer. And time will tell what my heating bills look like.

Also, if Anyone wants a good Honeywell engineer in London, Lee of LJB Heating in Richmond. Young (which frankly is a boon with this stuff – half the older engineers I have met/spoken to scratch their heads and mumble “witchcraft” when faced with this stuff), personable, knowledgeable and fair pricing. He also picked up on a few Gas Safe things that my plumber (who has been a nightmare throughout this renovation project) had failed to get right(!)

i'm a spark and fitted one for a mate with underfloor heating last yr, we had a good play and i realized you can control lights or electric underfloor heating using this
https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/honeywell-evohome/28-...
I was going to wire his christmas lights through it so he could control them from the app!!

It will switch up to 5 amps giving you 1150 watts

Edited by caterhamboy on Tuesday 20th December 18:30

Evohome is a bit of a bugger to install, it had me & a friendly electrician scratching our heads for a good few hours trying to commission the damn thing. Majority of the time was trying to work out why the 'Hot Water' wouldn't turn on. Turned out it was simply because there is a in-built 10min delay between setting the temp & the controller firing the system up.

Buy from ''The Evohome Shop'' and pay 10% more, for the sake of having Richard (the owner) on call. He is fantastically helpful & knowledgeable about the system and how to set it up. For obvious reasons he is very strict on following the installation guidelines on where to install things & minimum clearance between things etc. Worth every penny to have him on hand to help out!

[RockyBalboa]

I am having about 22 rads split across 3 floors. System is currently being set-up with each heating zone having a zone valve plus one for HW.

I could get Evo home with the radiator controller (HR92?) on every rad and get rid of two valves - cost around £1.6k or I could have a nest in each heating zone for £600 or there abouts.

Any thoughts?

[RockyBalboa]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

A UK vailant combi boiler it doesn't support it officially but easy enough to get working

I have a Vailant system boiler so am interested in this. Could you elaborate more perhaps?

[essayer]

RockyBalboa said:

I have a Vailant system boiler so am interested in this. Could you elaborate more perhaps?

You need a Vaillant VR33 add on board, sold in Holland. It hooks onto the main PCB.

It's obviously totally unsupported and possibly a warranty voider (if it's noticed)

Have a look on the automatedhome forums, a few people have done it.

[mondeoman]

RockyBalboa said:

I am having about 22 rads split across 3 floors. System is currently being set-up with each heating zone having a zone valve plus one for HW.

I could get Evo home with the radiator controller (HR92?) on every rad and get rid of two valves - cost around £1.6k or I could have a nest in each heating zone for £600 or there abouts.

Any thoughts?

evohome is limited to 12 zones if that helps

[RockyBalboa]

mondeoman said:

evohome is limited to 12 zones if that helps

Thanks.

I will either have to 'group' some rads together or get another controller for an additonal 12 zones. If it's the former, I'm going to have a challenge as to how exactly to configure it. E.g. 7 zones on ground floor leaves only 5. First floor has 3 rooms and 2 shower rooms, second floor has 4 rooms and 1 shower room. If 2 rooms are used on first floor and 2 on second floor, I guess I will have to group the shower rooms with these rooms.

[robsdesk]

RockyBalboa said:

Thanks.

I will either have to 'group' some rads together or get another controller for an additonal 12 zones. If it's the former, I'm going to have a challenge as to how exactly to configure it. E.g. 7 zones on ground floor leaves only 5. First floor has 3 rooms and 2 shower rooms, second floor has 4 rooms and 1 shower room. If 2 rooms are used on first floor and 2 on second floor, I guess I will have to group the shower rooms with these rooms.

Don't know if you're considering it but Tado will go above 12 zones now (was limited at 12) - I have 14. I did start off having bathrooms grouped but on Tado at least that's not ideal as only one of the TRVs can do the temp sensing so you can end up with rooms at the wrong temperatures.

[essayer]

Don't forget a zone can have multiple radiators and optionally a separate temperature sensor, giving you quite a bit of flexibility -

Individual HR92s each setting their radiator output based on their own measured temperature
All HR92s setting radiator output based on another HR92's temperature
All HR92s setting radiator output based on a DTS92/Y87 sensor

So it follows that a 'zone' isn't necessarily a physical room, but perhaps a set of rooms with a similar usage profile e.g. "kids bedrooms" could be two radiators in two different rooms but both heating to the same temperature pattern.
Unfortunately the same flexibility isn't possible for UFH.

[Trustmeimadoctor]

essayer said:

RockyBalboa said:

I have a Vailant system boiler so am interested in this. Could you elaborate more perhaps?

You need a Vaillant VR33 add on board, sold in Holland. It hooks onto the main PCB.

It's obviously totally unsupported and possibly a warranty voider (if it's noticed)

Have a look on the automatedhome forums, a few people have done it.

Exactly that I can supply pics if you do it as the automated home stuff is all over the place