Best Wifi enabled thermostat

[Trustmeimadoctor]

That's why you need room stats as well as the trv's so you get a more accurate reading of the room temp

[KTF]

Sheepshanks said:

How low can your boiler modulate? Min on our Glow Worm Energy 7 is 7.5kW, so I can't see Migo on eBus being much advantage unless yours is lower.

More generally, Tado does seem very crude, and it's like someone in Germany is deciding whether you can have your heating on or not. For me it mostly does respond pretty quickly but the other morning the heating was 35mins turning on, and our bedroom is often 5 mins late.

I particularly think the temp response of the TRVs is ridiculous - even set on 25 they'll be shutting off when the room is 20 because the TRV itself is heating up. I know you can offset them but their reaction is too variable - and it looks daft if you're not looking at the real readings.

I have an 18kw ultracom hxi. Where did you find that information as I have looked in the user guide and installation booklet and cant see any specifications?

In my head what I am trying to achieve is this (feel free to pick it apart):

When the system was last powerflushed, the engineer set the boiler on 'low' (via the service option) which was 40c flow and it was running for hours circulating the cleaning chemical. During this time the house was warm everywhere and it didn't use anywhere near as much gas as I thought as there was a constant but low heat which is apparently the ideal way to have a cosy house. The boiler didn't cycle and all the rads were warm.

The flow temp is currently set to 65c and as I have a cylinder I cannot set it any lower. When the heating is on the house does warm up but eventually the boiler cycles as the flow/return is pretty much the same despite it lowering the flame. Also when the the pump shuts off you can feel the difference as the flow through the radiator stops so there is no longer the circulating water..

With the Migo and smart wiring centre it will allow the temp to be set differently for hot water and heating even though it is a heat only boiler. The flow/heating temp will be determined by the logic in the stat and the hot water temp is set by the app.

When hot water is requested that takes priority over the heating so it will always default to the hot water temp setting during that time and channel all water to the cylinder. At all other times the flow will go up and down depending on what the stat decides based on outside weather, demand for heat and whatever else. From what I have read, this should achieve the constant background heat that all these smart stats are meant to do.

I also agree that the tado TRV is rubbish and too easily influenced by the heat coming from the rad. I tried one a few times and gave up in the end as it was shutting off too soon when the room was nowhere near warm. A conventional TRV doesnt seem to have this issue to the tado TRV is now on ebay waiting to be sold as I cant be doing with it anymore.

Tado have said that on the stat there is a +/- 0.5c margin before it will do anything which is pretty much standard for all stats. I get why this is in place but if I have the heating set to 18c then the stat does nothing until it drops down to 17.5 (at which point the house feels cold).

As the stat shuts off the heat early there is no overshoot like a traditional stat so it gets to 18, the house is warm for a bit but then feels 'cold' as the pump shuts off, water stops circulating, etc. and then you have to wait until the stat drops down to 17.5 again.

The solution is to 'fool' it by setting the temp to 18.5 in the schedule so that it kicks in when it drops down to 18 but then that defeats the object of having a smart stat plus burns more gas than it needed.

Anyway, rant over. For something that is meant to make your life easier it just gives me a headache I do like being able to turn the heating on whilst still in bed or when we are out, etc so I would not go back to a non-app based stat now.

.

[jimmybell]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

That's why you need room stats as well as the trv's so you get a more accurate reading of the room temp

with the current discounts (~35%) i ordered a few wireless temp sensors for my system, so the most used rooms (and most important ... so bedroom, lounge, hallway) all heat to the sensor rather than TRV.

the issue with the TRV sensors is exasperated in winter when houses are cold and losing more heat than ever, but obviously 2inches from the radiator is nice and toasty.

EDIT: i should say, recently had our first issue with Tado whereby the standard scheduler was working fine for heating, but a couple of times in the week the water did not heat. when tested the base station wasn't recieveing the call to heat despite the app being set to on manually, and after waiting an hour it never actually kicked in. solution was to restart the base station thing and the internet bridge, now seems much more responsive. have also turned off geofencing, for all my apps geofencing seems to work poorly (security, heating, etc)

would be nice if the app had some logs showing history of schedule.

Edited by jimmybell on Monday 6th November 14:08

[Sheepshanks]

KTF said:

I have an 18kw ultracom hxi. Where did you find that information as I have looked in the user guide and installation booklet and cant see any specifications?

Middle of page 7 it has min heat output 4.95kW. https://www.glow-worm.co.uk/glow-worm/to-be-review...


Didn't know that about the Migo and hot water temp being higher - hadn't thought about it, to be honest.

I think the Tado is fine for zoning off rooms (without having to do massive re-plumbing). We don't use our large, north facing living room much and that was a real heat sink. Beds 2 & 3 aren't used much and seem to stay reasonably warm anyway. I don't see any reason why Tado couldn't still be used for that and operated in isolation from the boiler, with the boiler controled by the Migo.

I really feel the cold if I'm not moving so sitting at my desk or watching TV I'm shivering at 18C. I really need it to be 21C. Which needs at least 23C on a the Tado TRVs. We're the opposite of most couples - my wife never feels cold.

[Sheepshanks]

jimmybell said:

Trustmeimadoctor said:

That's why you need room stats as well as the trv's so you get a more accurate reading of the room temp

with the current discounts (~35%) i ordered a few wireless temp sensors for my system, so the most used rooms (and most important ... so bedroom, lounge, hallway) all heat to the sensor rather than TRV.

the issue with the TRV sensors is exasperated in winter when houses are cold and losing more heat than ever, but obviously 2inches from the radiator is nice and toasty.

Yes that would be better but I still feel they're too expensive and you've got to find somewhere to put them.

[KTF]

Ah, so it does. Couldn't see it for looking

So assume its 4.95 on when the flame display is showing 1 flame and 18.57 when its running full tilt?

Once the temp gets up to 65c it does drop down to 1 flame then goes up and down to maintain the temp.

The last time I checked the diagnostic menu it was showing the flow out at 65 and the return at 50 when its gets up to temp and levels out. As the house comes up to temp the return creeps up (as you would expect when the TRVs shut off the rads) which causes the boiler to cycle on and off for a bit as it tries to keep the flow at 65 to service the demand for heat but at the same time the flow is very close to the return.

[KTF]

Sheepshanks said:

Didn't know that about the Migo and hot water temp being higher - hadn't thought about it, to be honest.

Yours looks like its a combi so you dont have to worry about that sort of thing as you can have different temps for both out the box.

Heat only GW boilers need the smart wiring centre programmer as there is feedback from that to/from the boiler and stat about what is being demanded and the temp is set accordingly.

I did ask GW if I could just install the Migo stat on its own but they said I needed the smart wiring centre as well but they said it wouldn't work as all control is then via the Migo app. So if you asked for hot water via the app the various valves, pumps, etc wouldn't open as it needs to control them via the programmer.

[Sheepshanks]

Ours is a system boiler. Energy7 30S.

Even with biggish vertical rads in the ktichen/ diner and hall, and my office rad, and the two bathrooms, the boiler will still cycle quite a bit. Obviously expecially once the Tados start to wind down, so 7.5kW is far too much.

[irfan1712]

Some great info on here. I’ve got a bit of an odd requirement for my set up in a renovation project.

Wet ufh downstairs, electric ufh on the first floor - no rads. I’m looking for a wifi thermostat that could be used for bath systems. Reason for this is I guess app control - so I wouldn’t need a set of thermostats and an app for downstairs and upstairs separately.

Is this even a thing and if so, does anyone have any recommendations? The system downstairs is a John Guest system, and includes the John Guest wiring centre already.

[KTF]

The smart wiring centre has arrived and so has the Migo stat and receiver box. The Migo was a bargain but a complete punt from a seller on Facebook market place. I transferred him the money and amazingly something that wasnt a box full of nothing was delivered a few days later Brand new and never used from a heating engineer who ordered it for a job that was cancelled so wanted rid.

Just waiting for the guy who services the boiler to find time between servicing boilers to fit it all It doesnt actually look that bad to fit but its now heating season and I would not be popular with the other half if I did it and it didnt work straight away.

A bit more fiddling with the radiators later and the flow/return is 65/45 once it is up to heat and the flame is on low so lots of condensing going on. As the TRVs start to shut down the rads the return goes up as you would expect but now there is a lot less cycling going on towards the end of the heating period.

Seemingly having the rads set a bit on the low side was causing the return to be on the high side causing the boiler to cycle more frequently. After opening them up the house is warmer, flow/return better and the gas usage is less as it sits there ticking over once up to temp rather than on, full tilt, off, on full tilt, off, etc.

[clockworks]

Just discovered that Honeywell Evohome is Alexa compatible.
I've enabled the skill, and it works perfectly after a little fiddling with group names. Alexa struggled to hear the difference between "bedroom" and "bedroom 2".

[Somebody]

clockworks said:

Just discovered that Honeywell Evohome is Alexa compatible.
I've enabled the skill, and it works perfectly after a little fiddling with group names. Alexa struggled to hear the difference between "bedroom" and "bedroom 2".

Someone has built an Alexa skill which does a lot more, especially if you have a show.....see https://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbulletin/showthre...

[TooLateForAName]

KTF said:

Yours looks like its a combi so you dont have to worry about that sort of thing as you can have different temps for both out the box.

Heat only GW boilers need the smart wiring centre programmer as there is feedback from that to/from the boiler and stat about what is being demanded and the temp is set accordingly.

I did ask GW if I could just install the Migo stat on its own but they said I needed the smart wiring centre as well but they said it wouldn't work as all control is then via the Migo app. So if you asked for hot water via the app the various valves, pumps, etc wouldn't open as it needs to control them via the programmer.

I've seen people say that they use the vaillant controls with the gw boilers. Apparently gives more options, but not sure which gw boilers are actually vaillants.

[KTF]

I would be very surprised if there wasn’t a lot of commonality under the bonnet of both brands and they both use eBus to communicate.

The Vaillant version of the smart wiring centre and Migo stat look identical for example.

I see glow worm as the Skoda to Vw/Audi analogy. All the stuff you can’t see is the same but you pay a premium for the badge on the front.

The Vaillant version of what I am wiring to get installed is the vSmart. Looks pretty much the same from the sales material although it’s discontinued now by Vaillant.

http://www.vaillantnorthampton.co.uk/docs/vsmart.p...

Glow worm support have been very helpful as well. Answering all my questions I emailed in even though I am not a trade.

Edited by KTF on Friday 17th November 23:11

[clockworks]

Somebody said:

Someone has built an Alexa skill which does a lot more, especially if you have a show.....see https://www.automatedhome.co.uk/vbulletin/showthre...

I've registered and installed the skill, but the only way I can actually see or use it is by launching it from the Alexa app on a tablet, and selecting a specific Echo Show to display it.
As soon as I return to the Echo Show's home screen, I can't open it again.

I can't seem to launch it on an Echo Show, unless I use the tablet app. I'm obviously missing something?

[WindyCommon]

irfan1712 said:

Some great info on here. I’ve got a bit of an odd requirement for my set up in a renovation project.

Wet ufh downstairs, electric ufh on the first floor - no rads. I’m looking for a wifi thermostat that could be used for bath systems. Reason for this is I guess app control - so I wouldn’t need a set of thermostats and an app for downstairs and upstairs separately.

Is this even a thing and if so, does anyone have any recommendations? The system downstairs is a John Guest system, and includes the John Guest wiring centre already.

Heatmiser? In my “powerfully built” house I have two boilers each running multiple zones, two large (primary) electric UFH systems and 3 bathroom electric UFH systems. It is now all controlled by Heatmiser. It’s been a massive win - in terms of comfort, convenience and energy consumption - and I can’t recommend it highly enough.

Edited by WindyCommon on Saturday 18th November 09:22

[vladcjelli]

In case you haven’t seen it, Drayton Wiser are currently 30% off for packs of their TRVs.

Just ordered four more to pretty much finish off the whole house.

[Somebody]

clockworks said:

I can't seem to launch it on an Echo Show, unless I use the tablet app. I'm obviously missing something?

Try "Alexa, Smart Heat" on the Show. Let is know how you get on.

[Grey_Area]

We have a Vailant ecotec 418 plus running our heating and hot water on a Y plan system; currently via a Honeywell St9420 programmer and wireless stat, fitted to a Honeywell wiring centre.
Is there a replacement programmer that we could fit directly without alteration to the existing Honeywell centre, and be able to use some smart controls via an App.. I'd like the flexibility being able to do this if I'm on the road coming home, and call, say for heating a little earlier than is pre-programmed.
Valiant seem to want me to fit a VR700 I think, not sure how good or not that is, I have TRV's fitted, but only the usual dumb types, system is open vent.
Thanks.

[clockworks]

Somebody said:

clockworks said:

I can't seem to launch it on an Echo Show, unless I use the tablet app. I'm obviously missing something?

Try "Alexa, Smart Heat" on the Show. Let is know how you get on.

That works!

Thank you