Best Wifi enabled thermostat
Discussion
5678 said:
Just to answer those,
Point 1, for Tado, you are able to set the time period for "night time" you can then specify if you want the house to be at the preset temperature for morning, or if you want it to turn on at that time and start heating then. It's a savings vs comfort decision. It also factors in outside temperature and how quickly your house heats up. E.g. Cold day and poorly insulated/inefficient house, it will turn on sooner, or, warmer day, efficient house, it will turn on later.
Oh sure, and maybe for some that's a great thing, I just don't really see it being much of a help. Particularly in my case when I get up at some stage after I wake up, whenever that may be. But each to their own.Point 1, for Tado, you are able to set the time period for "night time" you can then specify if you want the house to be at the preset temperature for morning, or if you want it to turn on at that time and start heating then. It's a savings vs comfort decision. It also factors in outside temperature and how quickly your house heats up. E.g. Cold day and poorly insulated/inefficient house, it will turn on sooner, or, warmer day, efficient house, it will turn on later.
5678 said:
Point 2, again for Tado, by factoring in how quickly your house heats up and the weather, it knows how soon to turn it on. Some might need it turning on 5 miles away, some might need it turning on 1 mile away etc. You are also able to change the proximity of "home", so if you work close to home, you can reduce the radius it will activate in.
You are also able to configure multiple devices, so for us, SWMBO's phone and mine are configured for proximity. If we are both out and someone else is there, then there is a "Home" button on the wall that can trigger the heating even if no devices are present.
Again, sure, I just don't see the benefit to me.You are also able to configure multiple devices, so for us, SWMBO's phone and mine are configured for proximity. If we are both out and someone else is there, then there is a "Home" button on the wall that can trigger the heating even if no devices are present.
5678 said:
I'm not trying to argue which is best, just shed light on how Tado works. IMO, with the new role out of multiple time slots, I think the scope for savings is higher with Tado.
Sure, I do think though that for a lot of people it is pretty pointless. For example if it coming on when you are a few miles from home works it is because the time taken to heat the house has to be pretty quick. If it is then it sounds great but then the setup as to when it comes on in the morning starts to be a bit pointless. But if it takes quite a while to warm it up then starting that off when you are a few miles from home becomes a bit pointless.Still, each to their own, it's just that for me it looks like a gimmick that becomes an annoyance if I went into it myself.
Harry Flashman said:
- ...but the moment someone invents room based TRVs that link with Nest or whatever, that will make a more compelling ownership prospect
The Honeywell Evohome system provides this i.e zoning by way of wireless trv's controlled by central unit and/or phone app. The initial outlay is higher (c. £400-£500 for base unit and 4 wireless trv's) but it's from an established manufacturer and is well regarded. Little competition for it at the minute!Another con: the TRVs do not call for heat per se. So you can't just go into the app and ask it to heat one room by setting temp in that room high. That will open the TRV, but will not trigger the boiler.
You effectively have to turn all the heating on, and then individually adjust room/zone temperatures.
Which can I am sure be done by "events" - i.e. "Heat TV Room" will tell the main thermostat to switch on and heat the house (at least until hallway therm is at the desired temperature: this will always override) and then close all the TRVs except for your TV room one.
Clunky. Why not just be able to go into a room, tell the TRV that it needs to be at 20 degrees, and just have it individually tell the boiler to turn on and close all other TRVs and ignore the hall stat?
I believe that this is what Evohome does (and probably why their TRVs are 50% more expensive than Lightwave's).
The main disadvantage here seems that the hallway stat is the key factor. It will switch the heating off if it gets to its set temperature, and the room(s) you want heating may not get hot enough. If you workaround this by setting the hallway stat sky high, you waste heat by heating hallway, as well as the bathrooms that don't have TRVs.
It seems that Lightwave will work to an extent, but the ease in the system will be in how you programme the app and set events. But you will still have inefficiencies compared to a proper zoned system that calls heat for the relevant zone, rather than having to call heat for the whole house and then turn down the zones you want cool.
And you will need to make sure that "events" override your default daily timers too. Haven't checked if this is the case yet, or whether it confuses the system...
You effectively have to turn all the heating on, and then individually adjust room/zone temperatures.
Which can I am sure be done by "events" - i.e. "Heat TV Room" will tell the main thermostat to switch on and heat the house (at least until hallway therm is at the desired temperature: this will always override) and then close all the TRVs except for your TV room one.
Clunky. Why not just be able to go into a room, tell the TRV that it needs to be at 20 degrees, and just have it individually tell the boiler to turn on and close all other TRVs and ignore the hall stat?
I believe that this is what Evohome does (and probably why their TRVs are 50% more expensive than Lightwave's).
The main disadvantage here seems that the hallway stat is the key factor. It will switch the heating off if it gets to its set temperature, and the room(s) you want heating may not get hot enough. If you workaround this by setting the hallway stat sky high, you waste heat by heating hallway, as well as the bathrooms that don't have TRVs.
It seems that Lightwave will work to an extent, but the ease in the system will be in how you programme the app and set events. But you will still have inefficiencies compared to a proper zoned system that calls heat for the relevant zone, rather than having to call heat for the whole house and then turn down the zones you want cool.
And you will need to make sure that "events" override your default daily timers too. Haven't checked if this is the case yet, or whether it confuses the system...
5678 said:
Harry Flashman, bit of a tangent for this thread, but do you use any of the other lightwaveRF products? I've been toying with their light and socket offerings for a while but always seem to find mixed reports online.
Nothing so far. May get some light switches so that you can set moods (e.g. turn off lights in TV room, heat it to 20 degrees) and also turn off all house lights when out of the house/set lights to come on and off randomly while away as a security thing. Sockets may be good for a few things, like making sure washing machine/dishwasher/customary ironing socket is off when you are out, to prevent fire hazard.
Sockets as on/off switches for complex devices seem pointless, as who actually turns off all power to their TV/Sky box, thus killing all settings/preventing recordings from being made? So the dream of having an event that says "TV on" which switches on your AV equipment whilst dimming lights and turning on the heating for the room wouldn't work.
Harry Flashman said:
Nothing so far. May get some light switches so that you can set moods (e.g. turn off lights in TV room, heat it to 20 degrees) and also turn off all house lights when out of the house/set lights to come on and off randomly while away as a security thing.
Sockets may be good for a few things, like making sure washing machine/dishwasher/customary ironing socket is off when you are out, to prevent fire hazard.
Sockets as on/off switches for complex devices seem pointless, as who actually turns off all power to their TV/Sky box, thus killing all settings/preventing recordings from being made? So the dream of having an event that says "TV on" which switches on your AV equipment whilst dimming lights and turning on the heating for the room wouldn't work.
I have quite a bit plugged in around the TV, only some of which needs to be on 24/7 for the reasons you mention. I was thinking of having items such as, external disc, blue ray player, amp, tv, playbar and apple tv all on sockets that turn off over night. Then things such as the sky box and my mac mini can stay on as they are used from other rooms in the house. Sockets may be good for a few things, like making sure washing machine/dishwasher/customary ironing socket is off when you are out, to prevent fire hazard.
Sockets as on/off switches for complex devices seem pointless, as who actually turns off all power to their TV/Sky box, thus killing all settings/preventing recordings from being made? So the dream of having an event that says "TV on" which switches on your AV equipment whilst dimming lights and turning on the heating for the room wouldn't work.
I also want one for the coffee machine so its warm when I get up
kapiteinlangzaam said:
Is the Tado customer service based in Germany (I heard it was)? If so, depending on the exact location its one of the biggest public holidays of the year this last weekend, yesterday and today...
Got reply from them. For those who's interested: Tado is OpenTherm compatible and will work with Viessmann Vitodens 100W boiler.Does anyone know about Hive? Is it OT compatible?
We had a Nest installed on Weds in our three bed semi, alongside a combi boiler replacing the old water tank and standard Ideal unit.
I'm sticking to the 'learning' rules for now; turning it up when we need warmth and down when we don't. Impressed that after just 36 hours it does seem to be getting our schedule and we're definitely using less energy, although some of that will be down to the boiler upgrade too.
Only niggle so far is that 'auto away' doesn't seem to switch on when we are in bed or out of the house for most of the day. Should I be switching the Away feature on when I know neither of us will be in, or just turning the temperature down?
Will be interesting to check my stats over the next 2-4 weeks and report back.
I'm sticking to the 'learning' rules for now; turning it up when we need warmth and down when we don't. Impressed that after just 36 hours it does seem to be getting our schedule and we're definitely using less energy, although some of that will be down to the boiler upgrade too.
Only niggle so far is that 'auto away' doesn't seem to switch on when we are in bed or out of the house for most of the day. Should I be switching the Away feature on when I know neither of us will be in, or just turning the temperature down?
Will be interesting to check my stats over the next 2-4 weeks and report back.
Terra1 said:
Harry Flashman said:
- ...but the moment someone invents room based TRVs that link with Nest or whatever, that will make a more compelling ownership prospect
The Honeywell Evohome system provides this i.e zoning by way of wireless trv's controlled by central unit and/or phone app. The initial outlay is higher (c. £400-£500 for base unit and 4 wireless trv's) but it's from an established manufacturer and is well regarded. Little competition for it at the minute!...Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
even regular TRV are a pain in the ass when they seize up every few years ...in the last 8 years ive replaced nearly all of 22 them in my house ...just 4 left that are frozen and they are in places that are fully open all the time anyway so not bothered. Im guessing these fancy expensive wi-fi TRV are still going to be prone to seizing up sooner or later...certainly after the 12 month warranty is out though
bogie said:
For anyone spending £500-1K on a system to mange their in home heating, do you think it will ever pay for itself in your lifetime...or is it more a luxury convenience thing ?
...Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
That's why I went for Hive, £199 all fitted and ready to go. From this thread I can see that there are not as many 'bells & whistles' as on some other systems but it does everything I need for not too much money....Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
bogie said:
Terra1 said:
Harry Flashman said:
- ...but the moment someone invents room based TRVs that link with Nest or whatever, that will make a more compelling ownership prospect
The Honeywell Evohome system provides this i.e zoning by way of wireless trv's controlled by central unit and/or phone app. The initial outlay is higher (c. £400-£500 for base unit and 4 wireless trv's) but it's from an established manufacturer and is well regarded. Little competition for it at the minute!...Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
even regular TRV are a pain in the ass when they seize up every few years ...in the last 8 years ive replaced nearly all of 22 them in my house ...just 4 left that are frozen and they are in places that are fully open all the time anyway so not bothered. Im guessing these fancy expensive wi-fi TRV are still going to be prone to seizing up sooner or later...certainly after the 12 month warranty is out though
We were very bad at running around and manually adjusting TRV's. With three young children and a business run from home, there are several days a week when the system needs to be heating the main living areas during the day. We would fire the oil boiler up and not bother to turn down the radiators we didn't need. Given a bit of time to set up we now have far better control of the house and have set a much better "base line" set of temperatures for all the zones (we're using all 12). This then allows us to quickly heat up only the areas we need if we are feeling a bit nippy.
We probably won't save a huge amount during the winter, when with Scottish weather we would be using the heating system extensively anyway. The real benefits come during the other 8-9 months of the year - it will only fire when needed to maintain temps. Proof will be in comparing oil consumption - something annoyingly un-precise given the lack of any oil metering - year on year. But early indications were good with our top up service needing to be cancelled/delayed over several months.
Regarding the TRV's - battery consumption is the only area that concerns me. The wireless Honeywell ones are very good - they cycle fully once a day to make sure that the valves stay free. Will they last? I hope so!
Leithen said:
We've had the Evohome system installed for nearly 9 months now. Will it pay for itself - I certainly hope so! A lot depends on your house and the way you use it. We have a 5 bed farmhouse with several areas that are used all the time, and an equal number infrequently.
We were very bad at running around and manually adjusting TRV's. With three young children and a business run from home, there are several days a week when the system needs to be heating the main living areas during the day. We would fire the oil boiler up and not bother to turn down the radiators we didn't need. Given a bit of time to set up we now have far better control of the house and have set a much better "base line" set of temperatures for all the zones (we're using all 12). This then allows us to quickly heat up only the areas we need if we are feeling a bit nippy.
We probably won't save a huge amount during the winter, when with Scottish weather we would be using the heating system extensively anyway. The real benefits come during the other 8-9 months of the year - it will only fire when needed to maintain temps. Proof will be in comparing oil consumption - something annoyingly un-precise given the lack of any oil metering - year on year. But early indications were good with our top up service needing to be cancelled/delayed over several months.
Regarding the TRV's - battery consumption is the only area that concerns me. The wireless Honeywell ones are very good - they cycle fully once a day to make sure that the valves stay free. Will they last? I hope so!
Good to hear you're still getting on well with this system. Your posts have encouraged me to take the plunge with evohome later this year for similar reasons. Our house isn't massive but we have 3 young children so we're in and out of the house with the youngest needing a heated room for his morning/afternoon naps whilst the rest of the bedrooms need no/little heat in the day. Can't remember if you have the underfloor heating module as well? We were very bad at running around and manually adjusting TRV's. With three young children and a business run from home, there are several days a week when the system needs to be heating the main living areas during the day. We would fire the oil boiler up and not bother to turn down the radiators we didn't need. Given a bit of time to set up we now have far better control of the house and have set a much better "base line" set of temperatures for all the zones (we're using all 12). This then allows us to quickly heat up only the areas we need if we are feeling a bit nippy.
We probably won't save a huge amount during the winter, when with Scottish weather we would be using the heating system extensively anyway. The real benefits come during the other 8-9 months of the year - it will only fire when needed to maintain temps. Proof will be in comparing oil consumption - something annoyingly un-precise given the lack of any oil metering - year on year. But early indications were good with our top up service needing to be cancelled/delayed over several months.
Regarding the TRV's - battery consumption is the only area that concerns me. The wireless Honeywell ones are very good - they cycle fully once a day to make sure that the valves stay free. Will they last? I hope so!
I'm hoping that it will pay for itself over a few years but that may be optimistic!
bad company said:
bogie said:
For anyone spending £500-1K on a system to mange their in home heating, do you think it will ever pay for itself in your lifetime...or is it more a luxury convenience thing ?
...Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
That's why I went for Hive, £199 all fitted and ready to go. From this thread I can see that there are not as many 'bells & whistles' as on some other systems but it does everything I need for not too much money....Im researching this smart home stuff, theres a huge jump from £150 app programmable wireless thermostats and having individual room controls from a central location
do we really need more than some simple TRVs in each room ?
Im just trying to figure out myself though. if our gas is £120 a month and I save 3 rooms heating, is that like £30 a year saving so 20-30 years payback on a fancy £1000 system ? I dont plan on being here in 20-30 years time (maybe 10) , so its a bit like solar panels...the idea gets parked and invest the money elsewhere
I fitted The Honeywell Evohome system in our house in 2 months we have saved £90 compared to last years 2 monthly bills. I work in the trade so got 8 try's, base unit and modem unit for £525. It will pay for itself in under 2 years i reckon. The main reason I bought it was for control as we are always in/out at random times of the day with some rooms not used at all but the lounge can always be left on full nice and warm.
that makes sense. The biggest saving for us is switching the whole lot off when we go away on business. Sometimes we are home all week working in the home office, other times we are away 5 days. So just having it all go off when we walk out the door is the key saving versus not heating individual rooms etc
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