Weed Killer- the daddy?

[LotusMartin]

So what do I need to nuke weeds in gravel? The muppets that did the garden laid wholly inadequate membrane - I want nothing to grow there EVER AGAIN!

(besides digging it up and laying the membrane properly!!)

[Simpo Two]

McWigglebum4th said:

Oh this wife bought some of this stuff from B&Q

http://www.diy.com/nav/garden/garden-care-watering...

It is spectacuarly ineffiective

I ended up pouring one entire scahet on one weed

It went a wee bit limp for a day or two before carrying on regardless

I should really use it all up if only to get a not very good bucket

Hmm, the B&Q site doesn't list active ingredients, just calling it 'systematic' (systemic). However Amazon is more helpful, stating: 'Deadfast Weedkiller to eradicate most common perennial weeds... This is a longlasting weedkiller for use on paths, drives and wasteland. Active ingredient is Ammonium Salt of Glyphosphate. For us March - October.'

So it's glyphosate again, which is the exact opposite of long lasting, and contains nothing to make it so. It is NOT a 'path and drive' weedkiller and will take 7-10 days for effects to show. So you've been completely duped I'm afraid.

Note though that 'pouring one entire scahet on one weed' is not the best way to get results. People like what I was spend a great deal of time establishing an optimum dose rate. This product is systemic - ie it is absorbed by the leaves and translocated to the roots so it can work. If you kill the leaves, it can't then work properly.

The actives that did the 'residual' part of the job were typically simazine and aminotriazole, but I think both are long gone, so really, to answer the OP, I would go with a weed-proof 'fit and forget' membrane. As I said pages ago, I used binliners and they lasted 20 years.

[otolith]

Must admit, while I can see the logic in it when you want something nastier than you can buy in the shops, I am always amused by people who want to use homemade weedkillers for "green" reasons. Because something you've cooked up from household chemicals is going to be necessarily less risky to the environment than something which has jumped through god knows how many legislative hoops and extensive testing.

[Willy Nilly]

Mark Benson said:

This.

You can get round the rules though, there is a 'grandfather clause' (or there was a couple of years ago, when we had a weed-covered paddock and wanted some Grazon 90) meaning that the certs are only required by anyone born after (IIRC) 1965 - born before that and you don't need to prove anything - being born in 1969 I got my dad to buy us a bottle since I have neither the time or inclination to do courses that tell me what I've known for 40 years.

I am almost certain that the grandfather rights are being removed, this year I think.

[SpeedBash]

hora said:

Which is the best? I've had a few from B&Q and they don't seem upto scratch.

Nuke the entire site fom orbit. It's the only way to be sure

[BlackZeD]

The suff from Amazon, if you look back at my long post it tells you that it turns into a fertiliser
eventually and is a simple chemical compound.
It has not been banned but just not applied for it to be relicensed probs due to cost and
not being backed by a big chemical company as Glyphosate is.


Dave.

[otolith]

BlackZeD said:

The suff from Amazon, if you look back at my long post it tells you that it turns into a fertiliser
eventually and is a simple chemical compound.
It has not been banned but just not applied for it to be relicensed probs due to cost and
not being backed by a big chemical company as Glyphosate is.

Interesting;

http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden-diary/189/ammon...

It is claimed in several places that the EU regulator wanted data from toxicity tests performed on dogs, and nobody was willing to do so.

[Simpo Two]

otolith said:

It is claimed in several places that the EU regulator wanted data from toxicity tests performed on dogs, and nobody was willing to do so.

Strange, you could have planted the resulting bodies and used them as gro-bags...

[snapdragon69]

Monsanto lobbied the EU (and US EPA) to ban all other weedkillers but theirs.
They did this by mandating all weedkillers need expensive EU testing and approval to be allowed to be sold. As all the good old and cheap weedkillers such as Sodium Chlorate were just generic chemicals and not protected by patents, nobody would pay to test and approve them, only for every man and his dog to be allowed to sell it too, so they were all withdrawn apart from patent-protected glyphosphates and derivitives.

[IanA2]

BlackZeD said:

Glyphostae is sh*t, the stuff in the attached link is the "dogs" and it is still legal..... as a
compost accelerator.
I used some stuff from a farmer friend, that killed everything, it was called "pastor" by
Dow Corning, dunno if you have to be a farmer to use/buy it though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistral-Ammonium-Sulphamat...

Any idea of the solution quantities if one were to spray this on fast growing compost?

[Simpo Two]

snapdragon69 said:

Monsanto lobbied the EU (and US EPA) to ban all other weedkillers but theirs.
They did this by mandating all weedkillers need expensive EU testing and approval to be allowed to be sold. As all the good old and cheap weedkillers such as Sodium Chlorate were just generic chemicals and not protected by patents, nobody would pay to test and approve them, only for every man and his dog to be allowed to sell it too, so they were all withdrawn apart from patent-protected glyphosphates and derivitives.

And many back pockets were filled no doubt. Gotta love politicians

[matt666]

What about Jeyes Fluid? It stinks for a bit after you've put it down but it seems to work pretty well.

[Simpo Two]

matt666 said:

What about Jeyes Fluid? It stinks for a bit after you've put it down but it seems to work pretty well.

It'll work as well as it ever did (phenolic) but if it isn't approved for that use you'll be clapped in irons. Good for fungi I think.

[SwanJack]

I've just sprayed a large area with glyphosate, it's taken about three weeks to have a real effect. The dandelions and docs were going within a week, the thistle about two, the meadow grass has now died off after three, the clover is still going strong. The packet says you can see results in 24 hrs, you can, but its only a darkening of the leaves. It does work eventually and if you want to plant soon after application, it's fine.

[otolith]

hora said:

snapdragon69 said:

Monsanto lobbied the EU (and US EPA) to ban all other weedkillers but theirs.
They did this by mandating all weedkillers need expensive EU testing and approval to be allowed to be sold. As all the good old and cheap weedkillers such as Sodium Chlorate were just generic chemicals and not protected by patents, nobody would pay to test and approve them, only for every man and his dog to be allowed to sell it too, so they were all withdrawn apart from patent-protected glyphosphates and derivitives.

I wonder what Monsanto employees use at home..

All academic now, the patent on glyphosate is long expired.

[Condi]

SwanJack said:

I've just sprayed a large area with glyphosate, it's taken about three weeks to have a real effect. The dandelions and docs were going within a week, the thistle about two, the meadow grass has now died off after three, the clover is still going strong. The packet says you can see results in 24 hrs, you can, but its only a darkening of the leaves. It does work eventually and if you want to plant soon after application, it's fine.

Proper glysophate or garden centre stuff?

There is a HUGE difference between the 360g/l (although you can now get higher) professional users chemical and the garden centre stuff which is around 90-180g/l.

Glysophate is good when used well, it is by far the most common agricultural weedkiller, covering millions of square miles a year.

[Simpo Two]

Condi said:

Proper glysophate or garden centre stuff?

There is a HUGE difference between the 360g/l (although you can now get higher) professional users chemical and the garden centre stuff which is around 90-180g/l.

But what is the concentration when mixed to the stated dose? The concentration in the bottle before dilution is immaterial. For retail no doubt it is sold more dilute for (1) possible safety (2) 'perceived value'.

[voicey]

BlackZeD said:

Glyphostae is sh*t, the stuff in the attached link is the "dogs" and it is still legal..... as a
compost accelerator.
I used some stuff from a farmer friend, that killed everything, it was called "pastor" by
Dow Corning, dunno if you have to be a farmer to use/buy it though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistral-Ammonium-Sulphamat...

I've just bought a small amount of Ammonium Sulphate off eBay - what sort of mixture do I need to knock up to make a strong weedkiller?

[BlackZeD]

Read the link and about a third of the way down in the replies section
someone tells you the dilution etc. that you could use IF you were outside
the EU.

http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden-diary/189/ammon...

The other stuff I used, please read the important notice.

http://www.progreen.co.uk/Weed-killers/Selectively...

Edited by BlackZeD on Thursday 30th May 19:30

[Simpo Two]

Do we have a confusion between ammonium sulphate and ammonium sulphAMate? Has Voicey bought himself some fertiliser?