Chamonix studio renovation - build thread
Discussion
Gruffy said:
If you had to jump through the proper bureaucratic hoops with the co-propriete and get permission at each step, probably necessitating more French workers...
Are there bureaucratic hoops to jump through when doing this kind of renovation? But if you're using someone unofficial or DIY you can turn a blind eye?
Building regs are EU and are quite reasonable. My place conforms but I also had my own level of quality which was that it had to be what I'd consider 'overkill safe' and give me longevity so that it didn't require excess maintenance for the next 20 years and/or before I sell it. The bureaucratic nonsense comes from doing works on an apartment within a co-propriete building. I worked on the basis that it was easier to seek forgiveness than permission. This was wise, as it turned out.
When I did speak to the syndical about fixing something to the wall in the bathroom (I can't remember why I started the conversation now) hey said they'd send somebody round to review my proposal before granting permission. This was drilling a tiny hole in the bathroom wall (which is 15-20cm thick reinforced concrete) to put a screw in to hold the shower. They said they'd be quick and could have somebody there in just 5 days time. Then it would be assessed by the panel and I'd have my answer a few days later. Bugger that.
Given the extra rules about when you can and can not carry out works (8:30-12:00 and 14:00-18:00, no holiday periods) you can imagine how impossible it would be to make any real progress if you had to follow that procedure every time you wanted to do even the most minor job. I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare it would have been to get prior approval to replace the mezzanine floor.
When I did speak to the syndical about fixing something to the wall in the bathroom (I can't remember why I started the conversation now) hey said they'd send somebody round to review my proposal before granting permission. This was drilling a tiny hole in the bathroom wall (which is 15-20cm thick reinforced concrete) to put a screw in to hold the shower. They said they'd be quick and could have somebody there in just 5 days time. Then it would be assessed by the panel and I'd have my answer a few days later. Bugger that.
Given the extra rules about when you can and can not carry out works (8:30-12:00 and 14:00-18:00, no holiday periods) you can imagine how impossible it would be to make any real progress if you had to follow that procedure every time you wanted to do even the most minor job. I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare it would have been to get prior approval to replace the mezzanine floor.
Ah so it was do it first, ask later...
What would you have done if an official turned up asking what are you doing and where are the permits?
Were you just lucky? The thought of doing something similar intrigues me, the jumping through hoops and unnecessary costs as the council want their slice of the money for nothing does not.
What would you have done if an official turned up asking what are you doing and where are the permits?
Were you just lucky? The thought of doing something similar intrigues me, the jumping through hoops and unnecessary costs as the council want their slice of the money for nothing does not.
We'd have crossed that bridge if we came to it.
I went to great lengths to be reasonable to our neighbours. To clean up constantly and do whatever I could to keep the inconvenience to the absolute minimum. I have to say all of our neighbours were really good throughout the whole build. The only troubles we had were from the caretaker, who was a notorious pain in the arse and we were warned about him from other friends who'd stayed in the block in previous years. He's the sort that considers himself an enforcer rather than somebody who is paid by the residents to help them. Luckily he retired this summer and we're now voting on how many people to replace him with. The syndic has suggested we should hire four employees at €140k pa. I am suggesting otherwise!
My approach was to give them no reasonable cause to grumble. Other renovations were happening in neighbouring apartments in the block, with their workers often making noise out of hours. I did similar during the final week but tried hard to give them no excuses.
I went to great lengths to be reasonable to our neighbours. To clean up constantly and do whatever I could to keep the inconvenience to the absolute minimum. I have to say all of our neighbours were really good throughout the whole build. The only troubles we had were from the caretaker, who was a notorious pain in the arse and we were warned about him from other friends who'd stayed in the block in previous years. He's the sort that considers himself an enforcer rather than somebody who is paid by the residents to help them. Luckily he retired this summer and we're now voting on how many people to replace him with. The syndic has suggested we should hire four employees at €140k pa. I am suggesting otherwise!
My approach was to give them no reasonable cause to grumble. Other renovations were happening in neighbouring apartments in the block, with their workers often making noise out of hours. I did similar during the final week but tried hard to give them no excuses.
Gruffy said:
We'd have crossed that bridge if we came to it.
I went to great lengths to be reasonable to our neighbours. To clean up constantly and do whatever I could to keep the inconvenience to the absolute minimum. I have to say all of our neighbours were really good throughout the whole build. The only troubles we had were from the caretaker, who was a notorious pain in the arse and we were warned about him from other friends who'd stayed in the block in previous years. He's the sort that considers himself an enforcer rather than somebody who is paid by the residents to help them. Luckily he retired this summer and we're now voting on how many people to replace him with. The syndic has suggested we should hire four employees at €140k pa. I am suggesting otherwise!
My approach was to give them no reasonable cause to grumble. Other renovations were happening in neighbouring apartments in the block, with their workers often making noise out of hours. I did similar during the final week but tried hard to give them no excuses.
Do you think your ground floor location was significant in making it all go smoothly?I went to great lengths to be reasonable to our neighbours. To clean up constantly and do whatever I could to keep the inconvenience to the absolute minimum. I have to say all of our neighbours were really good throughout the whole build. The only troubles we had were from the caretaker, who was a notorious pain in the arse and we were warned about him from other friends who'd stayed in the block in previous years. He's the sort that considers himself an enforcer rather than somebody who is paid by the residents to help them. Luckily he retired this summer and we're now voting on how many people to replace him with. The syndic has suggested we should hire four employees at €140k pa. I am suggesting otherwise!
My approach was to give them no reasonable cause to grumble. Other renovations were happening in neighbouring apartments in the block, with their workers often making noise out of hours. I did similar during the final week but tried hard to give them no excuses.
Put another way; would you take the same approach if looking at a forth or fifth floor unit?
It certainly made things a bit easier when it came to using the skip and getting materials in and out, but I don't think I'd have changed the design at all for an apartment on a different floor. It just would have meant a bit more swearing - nothing more. Only the joists would have needed lifting via the balcony if we were on a higher floor and they weren't too heavy to manage if that was necessary. I did see another apartment with a pulley system set up on the balcony.
I've just about finished a re-fit of a third floor apartment here in Bath, this has lift access but although we have consent to use it, we've been watched like hawks through the whole process by the ever present 'nothing else to do' residents.
Once this is done, next on the list is another third floor but without a lift and very swanky common parts so no doubt, we'll have the same level of supervision in there.
Whenever you re-fit, aside from the pure extra work involved in carting stuff upstairs, it's the potential for falling foul of the shared/communal area etiquette that causes us more problems than anything. Ground floor is just dreamy!
Great job on that studio btw! Properly impressed.
Once this is done, next on the list is another third floor but without a lift and very swanky common parts so no doubt, we'll have the same level of supervision in there.
Whenever you re-fit, aside from the pure extra work involved in carting stuff upstairs, it's the potential for falling foul of the shared/communal area etiquette that causes us more problems than anything. Ground floor is just dreamy!
Great job on that studio btw! Properly impressed.
Gruffy said:
Sounds like under-appreciated the benefit of a ground floor renovation.
What tends to command the highest price with this kind of apartment? Ground floor or not ground floor?When I was 15/16 I stayed with my friend and his parents at their ground floor apartment in Meribel-Mottaret during the summer. I had never been to the alps before (or skiing) and although I had a nice holiday I was too young to appreciate really where I was or what that kind of place offered. I would normally never ever be interested in a ground floor flat, but when it comes to somewhere where you can ski in and out of it seems highly desirable.
I haven't noticed the difference but I personally would much rather have ground floor to avoid lugging skis, boots and suitcases up stairs or lifts.
What does make a difference, in Chamonix at least, is having a view of Mont-Blanc. That commands a premium of around €30k on an apartment of this size. Madness in my opinion. I'd rather have it than not but then whenever I'm in Chamonix I spend all day in the mountains looking at it anyway. I'd rather drop my 'saved' €30k on heli time!
What does make a difference, in Chamonix at least, is having a view of Mont-Blanc. That commands a premium of around €30k on an apartment of this size. Madness in my opinion. I'd rather have it than not but then whenever I'm in Chamonix I spend all day in the mountains looking at it anyway. I'd rather drop my 'saved' €30k on heli time!
Advantage of ground floor in our block in Les Deux Alpes is the syndic don't ask for a contribution to lift maintenance/refurbishment which adds up over the years.
Disadvantage would be lack of views (and sunlight) if buildings are tightly packed, or nearby land likely to be developed.
Disadvantage would be lack of views (and sunlight) if buildings are tightly packed, or nearby land likely to be developed.
dontfollowme said:
Gruffy, where did you get that sofa? It looks nice. Great job on the apartment.
IKEA. Freihaten, I think it was called. One of the best bargains in the whole place at about £300. I looked long and hard trying to better it and couldn't come close for less than a couple of grand. It's really comfy and absolutely enormous when unfolded into a bed, which takes all of 2 seconds.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff