Extension plans (one day a build thread!) - thoughts

[Legend83]

We are planning to extend our house in the next two years to accommodate our expanded family. My uncle is an architect and drew us up some basic ideas based on our spec:

- at least one extra bedroom
- a hallway
- a good entertaining space with views to the garden to be able to see the children when cooking etc.
- Space and lots of it

Would welcome any thoughts - sorry for the numerous pics, these were our current choices for downstairs and up.













We also have a semi-converted loft space i.e. dumping ground with an office desk, which could be fully converted to a bedroom or even become the master suite.

[B17NNS]

Would it not be cheaper to move?

They are some massive alterations you are proposing.

[barryrs]

I agree with the above.

Adding an extension to create additional rooms on the side is nice and simple but to remove the existing (I assume gable?) is a massive task and structurally a can of worms.

[Muncher]

Agree with the above, that's a pretty huge change, could well be in the £100k+ category, would you ever make that money back?

[Legend83]

Thanks guys.

Answers:

We are fully aware of the scale and potential cost of the project. We love the house and don't plan to move so return is not an issue at present, although I think we would see the cost back in the value increase.

We live in a popular Hertfordshire town called Harpenden. House demand is constant here as it's 25 mins from London and has great schools. To upgrade to a new house with the same level of space as these plans would likely be £200k+ plus stamp and fees.

We bought this place for £260k in 2008, it's now "valued" at £350k and mortgage is currently £200k.

I am no builder or structural engineer so would value your guidance on what the biggest obstacles are. What would you change to reduce the complications? Scrap the hallway?

[barryrs]

First port of call for me would be to get your neighbors on side as i would say the works will trigger the requirement for a party wall agreement. If my neighbors approached me with similar plans i would be looking for a commitment to monitor any potential structural movement and perhaps an insurance policy that would encompass any potential damage to my property.

Construction wise if you have accepted the scale of the build then i dont think there is much you can do to simplify it. A lot will depend on how much support that existing end wall is providing to the roof, ceilings and first floors.

[Legend83]

barryrs said:

First port of call for me would be to get your neighbors on side as i would say the works will trigger the requirement for a party wall agreement. If my neighbors approached me with similar plans i would be looking for a commitment to monitor any potential structural movement and perhaps an insurance policy that would encompass any potential damage to my property.

Construction wise if you have accepted the scale of the build then i dont think there is much you can do to simplify it. A lot will depend on how much support that existing end wall is providing to the roof, ceilings and first floors.

Thanks for the reply.

Funnily enough our attached neighbours (it's a semi cottage) are planning exactly the same sort of thing so we have discussed the need for insurance and agreements to be put in place.

[Busa mav]

Be interested to see if there is a neighbouring property close by to the right.
If so your 2 storey ambitions are likely to take a hit.

[Legend83]

Busa mav said:

Be interested to see if there is a neighbouring property close by to the right.
If so your 2 storey ambitions are likely to take a hit.

There is. Our outer wall is about 3m width from her garage and then the rest of her house is the garage width away.

The previous owners of our house gained planning permission for a 2 storey extension before we bought it so was I naively thinking we would have no problem? I guess it depends if our neighbour kicks up a stink?

[Legend83]

Went to see our architect last night and these are latest plans:



(sorry not sure how to make it big so need to click on the picture to enlarge)

[Mark Benson]

I preferred one of your earlier designs, this one

But with the kitchen and dining areas swapped over so you can enjoy the garden and see the kids when cooking and while sitting down having a coffee or whatever.

With the latest plan, your middle room is purely for watching TV as there are no views (in fact, the only way to have your garden view is from the dining table as the kitchen is hidden away round a corner).
Also, with the dividing doors between them open, you'll have what is in danger of feeling like a long, thin sitting room with a dining table at the end of it.

Plan to make the most of a large southwesterly opening by having the places you're likely to spend a lot of time in (kitchen and sitting room) plonked in front of it.

[Legend83]

Mark thanks for the comments.

It's funny what happens when a completely fresh set of eyes has a gander as I completely agree with your point about the views - this was a priority for my wife (keeping an eye on the children etc.

I think part of the reason for the kitchen being laid out as it is presently is compatibility with the upstairs plan. We did discuss the positioning of the dining table for a while last night but my wife had the final say in that she wanted the whole area to be one big entertaining zone i.e. it would not be a formal dining area.

The question of the downstairs toilet also played a part i.e. cost implication of moving it from it's current position - although moving it to the hallway obviously frees up the garden wall space for a full-length bi-fold job.

I agree with your comment about the middle room being a bit wasted in that it is pretty much a carbon copy of the front room (except it will be for the kids and the front room is the adult zone).

Fortunately we are only at planning stage so the internal layout can be moved around to our hearts content.

Food for thought.

A few other questions to throw out there:

1. Anyone got a roll-top bath and is it totally impractical? The main bathroom will largely be used by the kids but my wife has always wanted one - my worry is if we have to put a shower in too to counter the impractical bath the bathroom will feel cramped. No shower and we will end up with the kids in our en-suite!

2. Entrance to our en-suite from the walk in wardrobe seems logical but without a window is there a risk of creating damp clothes?

3. I have the front lounge marked as an adult zone containing some decent tech - does it look a big enough space to fit a projector and possibly a wood-burner?

[shimmey69]

personally if possible i would add a small enclosed front porch so you can then get rid go dividing wall on front sitting room, as that hall will be a big wasted space, same as middle room, open the whole down stairs out as far as possible as it will make feel a lot bigger, if you want to have a private room then you can get nice full height room dividers to assist in.

The porch will stop the walking straight into the room feel.

[SAB888]

Legend83 said:

Went to see our architect last night and these are latest plans:



(sorry not sure how to make it big so need to click on the picture to enlarge)

If you are removing the gable end wall, what is supporting the floors, roof etc? There are no beams shown and with it being open plan, no walls to support beams anyway.

[Legend83]

shimmey69 said:

personally if possible i would add a small enclosed front porch so you can then get rid go dividing wall on front sitting room, as that hall will be a big wasted space, same as middle room, open the whole down stairs out as far as possible as it will make feel a lot bigger, if you want to have a private room then you can get nice full height room dividers to assist in.

The porch will stop the walking straight into the room feel.

Hi Shimmey

It's something we have discussed to death but ultimately both agreed we have both always wanted a nice hallway to give the house a touch of gravitas. It is a compromise given the size of the house but I think is in keeping with a Victorian style house. If it was totally open plan I wouldn't know how to fill it to avoid making it a bit empty!

[Legend83]

SAB888 said:

If you are removing the gable end wall, what is supporting the floors, roof etc? There are no beams shown and with it being open plan, no walls to support beams anyway.

I have posed the question to my architect but I assume the reason is these are planning plans and building regulation plans are to come?

[SAB888]

Legend83 said:

SAB888 said:

If you are removing the gable end wall, what is supporting the floors, roof etc? There are no beams shown and with it being open plan, no walls to support beams anyway.

I have posed the question to my architect but I assume the reason is these are planning plans and building regulation plans are to come?

Yes, they are sketch or Planning drawings as you say and don't show detailed info. I was just wondering how it was going to be done. I suspect large steel beams, but was wondering how it was going to work out, (supporting the floors, roof etc, because I suspect your floor joists go from side to side and would be supported on the gable end wall).

[Legend83]

SAB888 said:

Yes, they are sketch or Planning drawings as you say and don't show detailed info. I was just wondering how it was going to be done. I suspect large steel beams, but was wondering how it was going to work out, (supporting the floors, roof etc, because I suspect your floor joists go from side to side and would be supported on the gable end wall).

Hi, yes the architect confirmed these are just planning drawings and that support will be achieved using large steel RSJ's.

Our house won't be falling down!

Hopefully.

[barryrs]

The problem in my mind is that the architect hasn't even attempted to estimate the potential steelwork on the plans.

My worry is that once you have a structural engineer on board he will piss all over your chips by insisting on steel columns in less than perfect positions.

I would strongly recommend getting a local engineer involved now so any new structural support can be designed in at an early stage.

[Legend83]

Mini-update:

Our plans have been approved by St Albans DC so we can start taking the next steps. We had a builder come round to guestimate based on the planning drawings and as B7NNS / Muncher suggested, we are well into the £100-150k region...

However, research on houses sold in our town revealed that to purchase a house with the equivalent floor space would likely cost us £400k (over and above the value of our current house) - 3 beds in Harpenden average £600k!

So we are going to take deep breaths and 'invest' in our lovely little home (soon to be big hopefully!).