Wood work top sealing conundrum

[Wozy68]

TonyHetherington said:

Nothing between the worktop and the wall (there's an expansion gap there), but between the worktop and the bottom of the upstand

Noooooooo. Utter pants.

Also never sealed any edges with cascamite, not heard of that before.

Where Rayburn's/Agas are concerned, we fix the timber across the grain where they meet the cooker.

Never allowed for contraction/expansion on a worktop either, they are not like floors where they are built between two walls, and timber doesn't expand in its length.

Edited by Wozy68 on Wednesday 5th March 15:04

[TonyHetherington]

My worktops are U shaped, so 1 has 3 sides of restriction, and one has 4! Let's see no expansion gaps on those....it would be causing some horrendous results if there was nothing allowed to move;

(pics in this thread; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )

[loughran]

TonyHetherington said:

loughran said:

Which gap are we talking about here ?

Nothing between the worktop and the wall (there's an expansion gap there), but between the worktop and the bottom of the upstand

I would say it was good practice to have no gap between the worksurface and the upstand, much better to fix the upstand firmly to the worksurface with screws and glue. Less chance of disease that way.

Slightly nervous about the advise to use lots of oil in gaps... gap filling properties of oil can be over estimated in my opinion.

Kitchen looks great.

[Neil - YVM]

TonyHetherington said:

My worktops are U shaped, so 1 has 3 sides of restriction, and one has 4! Let's see no expansion gaps on those....it would be causing some horrendous results if there was nothing allowed to move;

(pics in this thread; http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )

Understand, your logic. But in truth there will be minimal movement, and there is no need to leave expansion joints.

[loughran]

paulrockliffe said:

I'm fitting some oak worktops shortly. What's the best way to prepare, treat and look after them?

The thing with oak worktops is whilst they don`t really mind being all nice and brown, all they really want to do is turn black.

It's the tanin you see, oak is full of it and all it takes is a bit of moisture and a bit of metal and the wood will stain black. Indelibly.

So it's really important that if you have taps drilled into an oak worksurface, you seal those holes thoroughly before the taps are fitted. If you have oak surfaces around a sink, then the apertures must be sealed thoroughly before the sink is fitted, otherwise water will get in there (it will) and the rot will set in. If you have oak around a Belfast sink, God help you.

If you are fastidious, your oak worktop will stay looking nice... maybe.

As for finishing wooden worksurfaces, Osmo products work Ok if you keep up with them but you must be vigilant. Whilst you sleep, your worktops are planning to go ebony.

[TonyHetherington]

loughran said:

I would say it was good practice to have no gap between the worksurface and the upstand, much better to fix the upstand firmly to the worksurface with screws and glue. Less chance of disease that way.

Ah sorry perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. The upstand remains flat on the worktop. And the upstand remains flat against the wall. However the worktop is ~5mm from the wall (which you don't see) - that's where I have the allowance.

[blueST]

Neil - YVM said:

Let the work top dry for a few days prior to sealing the joins to tile and work top. Using a good quality sanitary sealant such as Dow Corning 785 should work just fine.

It was Dow 785 that failed my test. Just peeled off dead easy.

Thanks all for the suggestions, but I can't see that any of the suggested sealants would adhere to an oily surface, unless I've missed something.

So, I'll see if I can sand back to fresh wood where I need to seal.

[loughran]

TonyHetherington said:

loughran said:

I would say it was good practice to have no gap between the worksurface and the upstand, much better to fix the upstand firmly to the worksurface with screws and glue. Less chance of disease that way.

Ah sorry perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. The upstand remains flat on the worktop. And the upstand remains flat against the wall. However the worktop is ~5mm from the wall (which you don't see) - that's where I have the allowance.

And is that where Norolk Oak told you to use lots of oil ?

Not trying to be obtuse, I'm just used to companies talking utter guff.

[TonyHetherington]

Yup - in there. Your thoughts are not that, then?!

[Wozy68]

loughran said:

TonyHetherington said:

loughran said:

I would say it was good practice to have no gap between the worksurface and the upstand, much better to fix the upstand firmly to the worksurface with screws and glue. Less chance of disease that way.

Ah sorry perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. The upstand remains flat on the worktop. And the upstand remains flat against the wall. However the worktop is ~5mm from the wall (which you don't see) - that's where I have the allowance.

And is that where Norolk Oak told you to use lots of oil ?

Not trying to be obtuse, I'm just used to companies talking utter guff.

Great description about Oak as well. We try our hardest to explain the problem with Oak tops (we make our own) yet still people spec them and want them oiled.

[Rosscow]

loughran said:

paulrockliffe said:

I'm fitting some oak worktops shortly. What's the best way to prepare, treat and look after them?

The thing with oak worktops is whilst they don`t really mind being all nice and brown, all they really want to do is turn black.

It's the tanin you see, oak is full of it and all it takes is a bit of moisture and a bit of metal and the wood will stain black. Indelibly.

So it's really important that if you have taps drilled into an oak worksurface, you seal those holes thoroughly before the taps are fitted. If you have oak surfaces around a sink, then the apertures must be sealed thoroughly before the sink is fitted, otherwise water will get in there (it will) and the rot will set in. If you have oak around a Belfast sink, God help you.

If you are fastidious, your oak worktop will stay looking nice... maybe.

As for finishing wooden worksurfaces, Osmo products work Ok if you keep up with them but you must be vigilant. Whilst you sleep, your worktops are planning to go ebony.

I've said it before and I'll say it again! Sadolin PV67 in clear satin.

These are our kitchen worktops after 2 years of hard use. I've not done anything to them other than the initial 3 coats of PV67. It's a superb product.

[Wozy68]

Rosscow said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again! Sadolin PV67 in clear satin.

These are our kitchen worktops after 2 years of hard use. I've not done anything to them other than the initial 3 coats of PV67. It's a superb product.

Looking great, we have probs only when they want them oiled, which often they do.

[loughran]

Rosscow said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again! Sadolin PV67 in clear satin.

Good to know !!... because oiling oak worktops is a fools paradise.

Cheers.

[paulrockliffe]

So all that black death stuff I've just been threatened with won't happen after three coats of miracle-varnish?

The missus has specified the obligatory belfast sink, so I'm fked aren't I.

[Rosscow]

paulrockliffe said:

So all that black death stuff I've just been threatened with won't happen after three coats of miracle-varnish?

The missus has specified the obligatory belfast sink, so I'm fked aren't I.

Use the PV67, it'll be fine. Coat the underneath once before you do the tops. Pay particular attention around any showing end grain - especially the sink.

Use a small mohair roller (rinse well and dry before use to get rid of all loose hairs).

Once you start move fast and keep moving the roller until the entire worktop is finished - this stuff goes off quickly.

Rub down with 240g paper between coats and get some tak-rags to get rid of the dust before you reapply.

If you start at an early enough time you could get 2 coats on in a day, if not 3 if you don't mind a late finish.

[paulrockliffe]

Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. No problem doing the underside before it goes on.

[Broken Hero]

Wozy68 said:

Looking great, we have probs only when they want them oiled, which often they do.

So you shouldn't oil oak worktops? Why not? I was planning on using osmo oil when mine are installed.

[Wozy68]

Broken Hero said:

So you shouldn't oil oak worktops? Why not? I was planning on using osmo oil when mine are installed.

As description above ref oak going black if got wet. With oiling, you have to keep it well oiled to stop water penetration, but even so water finds it way in especially around sinks, taps etc, when this occurs the timber goes black and looks unsightly.

If you ever see a window or exterior door built in Oak, you will see where the corners or with a door the lower half as gone black as the tanning in the timber as come through.

I love oak, it looks especially good asa a worktop, but we don't reccomend it in a kitchen. Even sealed with the strongest varnish, if you chip it, and water gets in, then black it will go.

[TonyHetherington]

Oh I must say - I've been walking about walnut worktops, rather than oak

[Rosscow]

TonyHetherington said:

Oh I must say - I've been walking about walnut worktops, rather than oak

It's a shame that you've oiled them - the PV67 is far superior.

For your tops to look in great condition you should be re-oiling every 9 months or so depending on wear.