Deal Fallen through...such a stupid system.

[Dave_ST220]

IIRC the agent must do (by law) pass on all offers. It isn't sold until contracts are exchanged. (hence sold STC). & even then it isn't really sold until you have the key in your hand!

[Mr GrimNasty]

That's correct, they had no choice.

[blueg33]

Vendor can isntruct the agent in writing not to pass on offers, but unless it is in writing then the estate Agents Act means that offers have to be passed on.

Edited by blueg33 on Wednesday 23 April 11:47

[boxst]

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

[russy01]

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

[type-r]

Russy01, this EXACT same scenario happened to me last week. It was like I wrote this thread!

[JQ]

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

[Durzel]

Dave_ST220 said:

A deal is a deal once contracts are exchanged, you are then legally obliged to purchase the property. However the reality is even then things can go tits up & try chasing someone for money who then claims they have none!

You pulled out on exchange day, did you compensate all those involved?

Nope. In my case the reason I pulled out because the seller was reticent in answering a number of perfectly reasonable questions put to him (he was foreign, and living overseas). I'd given him the benefit of the doubt for several weeks and chasing from my solicitor but his answers were not satisfactory and it got to the stage where all searches, etc were complete and contracts drawn up with said questions still unanswered. That, and subsequent post-survey inspections revealed additional costs and the seller wasn't prepared to budge on the price.

My point really was more that the OP's well intentioned attitude doesn't really mean much since he could himself pull out right up to exchange without penalty (beyond sunk costs) or obligation.

Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 23 April 13:04

[scenario8]

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

[Podie]

Russ - gutted for you mate

It really is a crap system.

[MitchT]

Once a deal looks firm enough that the potential buyer starts to incur costs the expense should be on the seller if they pull out. You never know though - it might fall through and they might be back. Friend of mine offered on a house. Offer was accepted. Seller then pulled out due to a better offer. Friend said "fair enough, I'm out". Few months later seller came back with their tail between their legs so friend reduced offer by £5k. Sale went through. Result!

[russy01]

scenario8 said:

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

Of course I sold my house - I wouldn't have started legal proceedings and have the new mortgage arranged if my old house wasn't sold.

I made an offer on the new house whilst my house was still for sale, but under offer (had 2-3 people offering). A week or so later I accepted an offer on my house, so we confirmed the deal with the vendor for the new house and then started to proceed immediately.

[anonymous-user]

rufusgti said:

But the system has crapped on you, It's hard to let that slide.

It's the people who are selling the house who have crapped on him. There's all kinds of unscrupulous things you might be able to do legally or within a system, doesn't mean you should though.

People doing this ought to realise it's just as possible for the buyer to be a scumbag if the seller breaks a deal.

[scenario8]

russy01 said:

scenario8 said:

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

Of course I sold my house - I wouldn't have started legal proceedings and have the new mortgage arranged if my old house wasn't sold.

I made an offer on the new house whilst my house was still for sale, but under offer (had 2-3 people offering). A week or so later I accepted an offer on my house, so we confirmed the deal with the vendor for the new house and then started to proceed immediately.

Well, you confused me with talk of "months of hard negotiating" and now "a week or so later". A very minor point in the grand scheme of things but it appeared you had spent months not being in a position to proceed within your stated period of months of hard negotiating. Where have all these months come from, then? Or is it simply a case of months since you were proceedable and the wheels of conveyancing have been grinding terribly slowly to the point that a new offerer has appeared before you inched towards exchange?

[russy01]

scenario8 said:

russy01 said:

scenario8 said:

JQ said:

russy01 said:

boxst said:

I wonder if the seller was annoyed. You mentioned 'several months of hard negotiation' so maybe he was unhappy with the deal but took it and was then happy when someone else came along so he could show you the house was worth more?

The deal I negotiated didn't really take long. What took the most time was getting the right money for my place and then getting the final numbers sorted, so a couple grand here and there so everybody felt like they got a fair deal.

So you'd not actually sold you own house when you agreed to buy the new place?

Hmm. Not that it makes the OP's life any easier but this little truth changes my perspective on the story at least a little.

There will always be other options, OP. I appreciate you want to purchase in a very limited market, so my adivce would be to letter drop (even door knock - you never know who knows someone who might be interested) and to maintain a very very good relationship with local agents (and solicitors). You might also want to consider continuing with your own sale (to completion if necessary) so that you are in a position to proceed as soon as the next 99%er appears on the horizon.

Of course I sold my house - I wouldn't have started legal proceedings and have the new mortgage arranged if my old house wasn't sold.

I made an offer on the new house whilst my house was still for sale, but under offer (had 2-3 people offering). A week or so later I accepted an offer on my house, so we confirmed the deal with the vendor for the new house and then started to proceed immediately.

Well, you confused me with talk of "months of hard negotiating" and now "a week or so later". A very minor point in the grand scheme of things but it appeared you had spent months not being in a position to proceed within your stated period of months of hard negotiating. Where have all these months come from, then? Or is it simply a case of months since you were proceedable and the wheels of conveyancing have been grinding terribly slowly to the point that a new offerer has appeared before you inched towards exchange?

Lets not worry about it chap. Started the thread to let off a bit of steam and have a moan - not to go through the intricate details of the whole process.

[scenario8]

el stovey said:

rufusgti said:

But the system has crapped on you, It's hard to let that slide.

It's the people who are selling the house who have crapped on him. There's all kinds of unscrupulous things you might be able to do legally or within a system, doesn't mean you should though.

People doing this ought to realise it's just as possible for the buyer to be a scumbag if the seller breaks a deal.

I've witnessed and posted within many threads over the years where PHers have thought nothing (or very little) of gazundering, offering on mulitiple properties, withdrawing offers when better options have arisen, seeking (exaggerrated IMO) renegotiations after survey and so on. Scruples tend to be in short supply in property transactions in my experience - and PH can be a hypocritical and contradictory place.

[anonymous-user]

scenario8 said:

and PH can be a hypocritical and contradictory place.

Off course, the members are just a sample of the general population.

[fido]

scenario8 said:

...

Erm, aren't you an Estate Agent?
Not to lump you all in one group (as you have done the same with PH'ers) but EAs perpetuate this sort of behaviour all the time! The house I lost near Wandsworth was, I suspect, shown to someone after it had been 'taken off the market'. It's crappy, but until you've exchanged contracts then all is fair game - once you accept that is the case (and whilst I do feel sorry for those buying first time) then you have to work around it. TBH I wish I had pulled out on a previous purchase but went along with it to be 'honourable'. More fool me.

[Podie]

fido said:

Not to lump you all in one group (as you have done the same with PH'ers) but EAs perpetuate this sort of behaviour all the time!

The estate agent we dealt with last year didn't - but then the entire chain was with them, so perhaps it was an exception?

[scenario8]

The World's full of nobs. I'm not going to pretend otherwise. I seem to come across them often enough! Honestly, though, most agents (unless very specifically instructed otherwise - and even then usually against advice) would take an easy life over getting involved with silly and unnecessary shenanigans. I promise you in practice trying to engineer gazumping (or similar) is more likely to produce all manner of additional grief for an extremely marginal additional return. There is the possibility of divisions within an office and/or inter-agency competition, of course, but ordinarily there's little point really. Perhaps the old maxim "You can only sell it once" should read "you can only be paid for it once"?