Noobie converting and extending a Vic. house into flats?????

[Mark300zx]

Hi,

I inherited a house a while ago and I wish to convert it two flats, one three bed and one two bed flat and extend the property as well.

First stage would be get plans drawn up, and getting planning permission, and really after any advice regarding that area please, costs etc.?

[Justayellowbadge]

Where is it?

[kiethton]

^^^^

This, huge difference in both costs and realisations.

If you're a novice, getting a proper Quantity Surveyor/Project Manager (often the same person) would save you more than their fees in experience and knowledge.

PM me for a recommendation if you need one of the above in the SE

Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 23 April 15:53

[KTF]

A 3 bed flat? Is there a market for such a thing in the area of the conversion?

[barryrs]

I would submit a pre-application advice request from the LA first of all.

This will highlight the relevant local policy's that will apply as something like the requirements for parking provision within the adopted local plan might scupper any potential development before you spend any real money.

My local area has gone from 1.5 spaces per 3 bed dwelling to 3.

[Spudler]

barryrs said:

My local area has gone from 1.5 spaces per 3 bed dwelling to 3.

Pretty sure this is a standard requirement now.

[Mark300zx]

Thanks for all the replies.

Have to agree 3 bed is a strange fish, but the property layout and council regs leans in that direction!

The property is in SW London.

There is no requirement for parking spaces by the LA and the property would not incur any levy from the LA for the increase in residential space/residences.

[Mark300zx]

Have had a look and didn't know about the pre application request form will fill out tonight!

[98elise]

One thing you might have issues with is noise transmission. IIRC there is a minimum standard for flats that its very hard to achive in conversions. The probelm is that its tested after you convert, so you risk not meeting the criteria and having to do remedial work.

Most other criteria for building regs are calculated up front, and as long as you build as per spec then you are fine.

[Mark300zx]

Thanks have heard the noise regs are onerous, will have to ensure these specs are met

Keithton may I ask what your role is with project managing?

[kiethton]

Mark300zx said:

Thanks have heard the noise regs are onerous, will have to ensure these specs are met

Keithton may I ask what your role is with project managing?

Not me, I'm still in Real Estate though but more the Lending/Equities/REIT's side.

It's actually my dad, headed up the Quantity Surveying & Project Management divisions of a well known national surveying firm, now doing smaller bits and pieces for himself under a new banner as he moves towards retirement - PM me and I'll put you in touch, although he does lurk around here

Yes noise reg's are an issue but can be designed around and built out (90% of risk).

On the 3 bed aspect it actually makes sense in the (broad) location, especially if close to transport links. There is v. high demand from young professionals who club together to rent a flat and split rent/bills between them as joint and several tenants, only way for them to survive anywhere deemed prime/fashionable. A decent BTL landlord would snap both up at decent money in the current climate (specific location and quality of construction dependent).

[Mark300zx]

Ok I might have to send you a pm about that, my plan is to keep them both, to give me some form of pension and an asset that is gaining in value.

[Mark300zx]

Have downloaded the pre planning advice form cost of submitting £120, I don't think it can help, I need plans for it, the conversion is pretty standard and has been done many times before in the street and the council do a walk in service which is free of charge which I think it is more appropriate at this stage of the development, thanks for the heads up though

[Justayellowbadge]

In Wimbledon it probably wouldn't make sense - the opposite is happening and people are buying the flats and turning back into single homes.

Here you'd do better extending and modernising a terrace than converting to flats, and you could do a 5 bed for roughly the same as the flat conversion.

I presume you've spoken to agents about what would work now, and projections for the future?

[Mark300zx]

Yes thanks have been inundated with estate agents , it is not too far from Wimbledon, have not heard about people reverting back to houses there! The house is in an area with no viable catchment areas so no real bonus from that aspect. Plus having two flats will give me (fingers crossed) continuity of income, if a tenant mistreats am entire house it could cause cashflow chaos!!!

[kiethton]

Mark300zx said:

Ok I might have to send you a pm about that, my plan is to keep them both, to give me some form of pension and an asset that is gaining in value.

That's a good shout in that location, no problem, any time.

As others have said, I'd do the walk through of a basic preliminary plan with the council to make sure it's feasible on a broad level and then instruct the architect/draftsman and/or PM/QS at the same time (some architects love to go OTT and design costly solutions to simple problems in places that will never be seen) so the PM can advise on value maximisation/cost minimisation at the design stage and gather full contractor quotes/individual work plans etc.

From the brief description if the extension is full height, the house is of decent width and existing depth, you may even get 2 2 beds and a 1 bed in the roof space if you design well (harder to get through planning through)

[Mark300zx]

Thanks, I had a brainwave about doing exactly that, 2x2 beds and a 1 bed but looked at the minimum sizes stipulated by the council and unfortunately it falls under size for a conversion but not for a new build,,, weird!!!!!

Also the EAs thought it wouldn't add much in terms of value!

[Tribal Chestnut]

kiethton said:

It's actually my dad, headed up the Quantity Surveying & Project Management divisions of a well known national surveying firm, now doing smaller bits and pieces for himself under a new banner as he moves towards retirement.

Your dad is Terminator X??

[kiethton]

Mark300zx said:

Thanks, I had a brainwave about doing exactly that, 2x2 beds and a 1 bed but looked at the minimum sizes stipulated by the council and unfortunately it falls under size for a conversion but not for a new build,,, weird!!!!!

Also the EAs thought it wouldn't add much in terms of value!

Not necessarily value but would be better if you look at it from a rental perspective as you said.

Simple figures based on my part of london:

1 2 bed, 1 3 bed:

2 bed rent: £1,200pm
3 bed rent: £1,400pm

Total: £2,600pm

2 2 beds, 1 1 bed:

2 bed rent: £1,150 x 2 = £2,300 (smaller so slightly less)
1 1 bed: £1,000pm
Total: £3,300pm

so £8k a year better off on a rental perspective every year and a more stable income mix. The minimum sizes may even be able to be overcome by the design of any extension, the shifting of walls etc. and the help of a good development team. On the flip side costs of conversion would be marginally higher.

Can you tell I review far too many development appraisals for him hahaha

[Mark300zx]

Thanks, with my novice eyes, even including the extensions the total area of the property would not equal the size needed for the flats unfortunately