The ebay generator restoration thread
Discussion
larrypinter said:
OK, my tale of woe with the SF 1000 generator.
I bought this on Ebay in 2009 mainly to run a few small tools while restoring my boat. The ad boasted that it was based on Yamaha technology, and indeed looked like it at least.
At 14 kg it's light to heave on and off the boat, and produces 1000 watt peak, 900w rated output.
It was rather louder than I expected, more than the Ebay advert led me to believe. The seller agreed to take it back. But then I changed my mind. At least it produced a pure sinewave and was not as smelly as the exhaust from the two-stroke 850 watt modified sinewave job it was replacing.
Weeks later, the litany of problems began. Despite plenty of petrol in the tank, it always cut out at the 1/3 remaining mark. Strange.
The first of dozens of tear-aparts began. Knowing nothing about these machines, I deduced which gadget was the fuel pump. Luckily it was the repairable kind with bolts---not a one-piece plastic.
After opening it up, noticed gobs of resin-like material clogging the various pulse pump ports. What were they? And why were they there? Poor Chinese quality control, that's what and why. I cleaned out the gunk, and that solved the problem. Genny would now run happily up to 6 hours on the 2+ litre tank.
Sometime later, the bout of happiness ended. It hunted badly and then shut down. After much working in the darkness of my ignorance of inverter-generators, I noticed the stepper motor which automatically matches engine speed to load, was bouncing about. Quality control again. The factory assembler hadn't tightened its two small securing bolts.
Sometime later, after running pretty well for weeks, I pulled the recoil starter rope, and it broke. One end disappeared inside the nether regions faster than a startled rabbit down a burrow.
Off came the side two-piece cases. But when I went to remove the three bolts by which the starter housing was attached to the plastic engine cover...they just turned and turned. The nuts turned with the bolts. And they were inaccessible inside the plastic cover. That cover had to come off, so more dismantling.
I held on to the nuts while unbolting. Then, having freed the recoil starter, I put adhesive on to the nuts to stop them free-turning in future.
Back to the recoiler. The centre bolt holding the bobbin with spring and rope would not unscrew, under any amount of force with my Phillips head screwdriver. So I had to take it to a lawn mower place. They installed a new rope, and away we went again for a few months.
When it started with a few pulls, happiness. Economical, ran the tools to fix the boat, and on the boat it ran the TV, charged the batteries when the solar panels couldn't cope with overcast skies.
But often--and I mean often---you could tug on that starter rope until your arms dropped before it sprang to life.
Finally, on another trip, nothing. No starting. Checked the plug---no spark. A new plug. No spark.
Sent away to China for a new coil and spark plug lead. This fixed the problem, but only for a while.
Again, after hours of arm-wrenching pulls, it gave up again. No spark.
This time, the dismantle involved not just removal of side covers, but the engine itself, and the inverter. Draining the oil out and checking the low-oil shutoff switch. It worked. The spark trigger. Seemed OK. Traced every wire for continuity. OK. Stripped the carburettor, cleaned it thoroughly.
After days of diagnosing I guessed it was the spark control module, so sent away to China for a new one. The module was probably the guilty party in the first place. The new coil only temporarily appeared to fix the problem while the module's intermittent ill temperament behaved itself.
Instant fix.
Sometime later, another thorn in the bed of roses. The rope snapped again--from all that pulling. I became quite adept at dismantling and assembly. And worked out a neat way of winding the recoil spring inside its holder with ease. While on the subject, the bent inner end of the spring, what latches onto a stationary post while it recoils...broke. Several times. You can't just take some pliers and bend spring steel into a hook, because it snaps.
So I heated it red hot over the boat LPG burner, and bent it. That worked, for a few months, before it would break again. So far, 3 ropes have also broken and been replaced.
Sometime later....the little blue genny started hunting badly. It didn't sound like a fuel starvation problem. I looked intuitively at the stepper motor. It was bopping around like a cork in a sea. One of its two little ears through which tiny bolts hold it down, had snapped off. They are so flimsy.
So, I got some tinfoil and fashioned an upside down U-shaped bracket to hold it down. It's still doing its job.
That's about the end of the physical problems. And probably the generator, too. You see, it works, runs well....But after measuring its output with a kill-a-watt type device recently, it read 228V AC. Pretty good compared to the household supply which read 254 V AC.
More worrying was the cycles. No reading. Occasionally from 0hz, 50hz flashed up for under a second, then back to 0. Yet tools run well. An electric clock, however, sped up so that a minute ticked by in about 3 seconds.
I tried a multimeter, and it's showing something like 150hz. Not good.
This is probably a fault of the inverter. But inverters in all these generators are encased in a hard epoxy resin-like substance and there is no tinkering possible. I have not been able to source a new one, and for the likes of Hondas, Yamahas, Kipors, they are around the $400 mark. More than the $300 the entire genny cost.
And that's where the saga ends. For now.
Hello from Greece. (My first post).I bought this on Ebay in 2009 mainly to run a few small tools while restoring my boat. The ad boasted that it was based on Yamaha technology, and indeed looked like it at least.
At 14 kg it's light to heave on and off the boat, and produces 1000 watt peak, 900w rated output.
It was rather louder than I expected, more than the Ebay advert led me to believe. The seller agreed to take it back. But then I changed my mind. At least it produced a pure sinewave and was not as smelly as the exhaust from the two-stroke 850 watt modified sinewave job it was replacing.
Weeks later, the litany of problems began. Despite plenty of petrol in the tank, it always cut out at the 1/3 remaining mark. Strange.
The first of dozens of tear-aparts began. Knowing nothing about these machines, I deduced which gadget was the fuel pump. Luckily it was the repairable kind with bolts---not a one-piece plastic.
After opening it up, noticed gobs of resin-like material clogging the various pulse pump ports. What were they? And why were they there? Poor Chinese quality control, that's what and why. I cleaned out the gunk, and that solved the problem. Genny would now run happily up to 6 hours on the 2+ litre tank.
Sometime later, the bout of happiness ended. It hunted badly and then shut down. After much working in the darkness of my ignorance of inverter-generators, I noticed the stepper motor which automatically matches engine speed to load, was bouncing about. Quality control again. The factory assembler hadn't tightened its two small securing bolts.
Sometime later, after running pretty well for weeks, I pulled the recoil starter rope, and it broke. One end disappeared inside the nether regions faster than a startled rabbit down a burrow.
Off came the side two-piece cases. But when I went to remove the three bolts by which the starter housing was attached to the plastic engine cover...they just turned and turned. The nuts turned with the bolts. And they were inaccessible inside the plastic cover. That cover had to come off, so more dismantling.
I held on to the nuts while unbolting. Then, having freed the recoil starter, I put adhesive on to the nuts to stop them free-turning in future.
Back to the recoiler. The centre bolt holding the bobbin with spring and rope would not unscrew, under any amount of force with my Phillips head screwdriver. So I had to take it to a lawn mower place. They installed a new rope, and away we went again for a few months.
When it started with a few pulls, happiness. Economical, ran the tools to fix the boat, and on the boat it ran the TV, charged the batteries when the solar panels couldn't cope with overcast skies.
But often--and I mean often---you could tug on that starter rope until your arms dropped before it sprang to life.
Finally, on another trip, nothing. No starting. Checked the plug---no spark. A new plug. No spark.
Sent away to China for a new coil and spark plug lead. This fixed the problem, but only for a while.
Again, after hours of arm-wrenching pulls, it gave up again. No spark.
This time, the dismantle involved not just removal of side covers, but the engine itself, and the inverter. Draining the oil out and checking the low-oil shutoff switch. It worked. The spark trigger. Seemed OK. Traced every wire for continuity. OK. Stripped the carburettor, cleaned it thoroughly.
After days of diagnosing I guessed it was the spark control module, so sent away to China for a new one. The module was probably the guilty party in the first place. The new coil only temporarily appeared to fix the problem while the module's intermittent ill temperament behaved itself.
Instant fix.
Sometime later, another thorn in the bed of roses. The rope snapped again--from all that pulling. I became quite adept at dismantling and assembly. And worked out a neat way of winding the recoil spring inside its holder with ease. While on the subject, the bent inner end of the spring, what latches onto a stationary post while it recoils...broke. Several times. You can't just take some pliers and bend spring steel into a hook, because it snaps.
So I heated it red hot over the boat LPG burner, and bent it. That worked, for a few months, before it would break again. So far, 3 ropes have also broken and been replaced.
Sometime later....the little blue genny started hunting badly. It didn't sound like a fuel starvation problem. I looked intuitively at the stepper motor. It was bopping around like a cork in a sea. One of its two little ears through which tiny bolts hold it down, had snapped off. They are so flimsy.
So, I got some tinfoil and fashioned an upside down U-shaped bracket to hold it down. It's still doing its job.
That's about the end of the physical problems. And probably the generator, too. You see, it works, runs well....But after measuring its output with a kill-a-watt type device recently, it read 228V AC. Pretty good compared to the household supply which read 254 V AC.
More worrying was the cycles. No reading. Occasionally from 0hz, 50hz flashed up for under a second, then back to 0. Yet tools run well. An electric clock, however, sped up so that a minute ticked by in about 3 seconds.
I tried a multimeter, and it's showing something like 150hz. Not good.
This is probably a fault of the inverter. But inverters in all these generators are encased in a hard epoxy resin-like substance and there is no tinkering possible. I have not been able to source a new one, and for the likes of Hondas, Yamahas, Kipors, they are around the $400 mark. More than the $300 the entire genny cost.
And that's where the saga ends. For now.
I know that this is an old post but I saw it just now.
Having the same generator from new, (with the brand name "VARO", I saw it branded and as "HONEYWELL"), can say these:
a)The first unit went off somewhere before 100 hours of use. (AVR damage).
b)They changed it with a new one, (after about, 2 years), with no charge, in exchange of the previous.
It does well, but still it is before 100 hours. (With some minor inconveniences).
c)The inverter is not "pure sine wave", but "modified sine wave", as they told me, (after a lot of pressure), from the central office in Belgium.
Right, generator people, after turning over a few petrol engine'd things Ive ended up with a genny.
This one, to be precise: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182140081260?_trksid=p20...
Now, its nothing special, but will do me to either turn and sell or keep myself. Had it back tonight and it wont start, so stripped down, ordered new spark plug, spark plug cap and fuel tap. Already have some new oil so thats fine, and the carb looks in incredibly good condition, much better than I was expecting.
So, assuming I can get the engine running fine - which I should be able to - what do I then need to test on the generator part of it. How do I test it is putting out the correct power in the right way?
This one, to be precise: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182140081260?_trksid=p20...
Now, its nothing special, but will do me to either turn and sell or keep myself. Had it back tonight and it wont start, so stripped down, ordered new spark plug, spark plug cap and fuel tap. Already have some new oil so thats fine, and the carb looks in incredibly good condition, much better than I was expecting.
So, assuming I can get the engine running fine - which I should be able to - what do I then need to test on the generator part of it. How do I test it is putting out the correct power in the right way?
Similar to the chinese one I originally bought. Before wasting too much time and money on the engine, take the cap of the end of the alternator and inspect the windings for signs of burning or damage - as they cant be repaired economically.
In fact advice to anyone is to do the above before purchase if possible and avoid these chinese gennys with german sounding names.
In fact advice to anyone is to do the above before purchase if possible and avoid these chinese gennys with german sounding names.
eliot said:
He was pretty abrupt with me. I said it wasn't worth what he was asking for it and it was a bit of a punt that it's just the inverter that had gone.
His words were:
"I know how much an inverter is and i also know the rest of it is in perfect working order and also know the reason it has blown
I dont care how many times its failed to sell i have a buyer who deals in these things that will give me £225 if and when ever i wish to sell it
So if he deals in them its worth more than that so your opinion dosnt count thanks"
Clearly the rest of the thing isn't in perfect working order.
I've picked up a working IG3000 for the house, going to start work on a changeover panel as there are some cheap misprinted changeover switches on the bay at the moment.
Hope you get it fixed though.
He was the same with me when I contacted him when it was first listed, I decided to give him another try as he gradually lowered the price. His words were:
"I know how much an inverter is and i also know the rest of it is in perfect working order and also know the reason it has blown
I dont care how many times its failed to sell i have a buyer who deals in these things that will give me £225 if and when ever i wish to sell it
So if he deals in them its worth more than that so your opinion dosnt count thanks"
Clearly the rest of the thing isn't in perfect working order.
I've picked up a working IG3000 for the house, going to start work on a changeover panel as there are some cheap misprinted changeover switches on the bay at the moment.
Hope you get it fixed though.
Edited by eliot on Monday 16th May 18:57
I suspect he new more about what was wrong with it than he was letting on. As during disassembly some bolts were not as tight as I would have expected.
After attacking the inverter pack with paint stripper I managed to remove some of the epoxy.
I had to give up, as the epoxy was under the circuit board, so there way now way of getting to it.
I moved on to trying to get the flywheel off using a hub puller so I could get access to the stator.
After applying lots of heat WD40 and leaving it under tension for a week it wouldn’t budge, so I gave up with the baby puller and managed to borrow a man size puller
After a couple of turns on the puller the flywheel was free.
As expected the stator windings were toast.
Even though the stator winding resistances matched the values in the service manual I decided it couldn’t be trusted.
I managed to source a second hand stator
Stator fitted to engine
New inverter pack
Inverter pack fitted
Once re-assembled it fired up straight away and worked, the carburettor needs some adjustment as the engine wasn’t running smoothly.
Condi said:
Right, generator people, after turning over a few petrol engine'd things Ive ended up with a genny.
This one, to be precise: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182140081260?_trksid=p20...
Now, its nothing special, but will do me to either turn and sell or keep myself. Had it back tonight and it wont start, so stripped down, ordered new spark plug, spark plug cap and fuel tap. Already have some new oil so thats fine, and the carb looks in incredibly good condition, much better than I was expecting.
So, assuming I can get the engine running fine - which I should be able to - what do I then need to test on the generator part of it. How do I test it is putting out the correct power in the right way?
As eliot said, take the cover off the end and check the windings also check the capacitor, normally a white cylinder with 2 connections (can be ½ moon shape as well) to see if it’s bulging. There are a few videos on youtube which show how to test a brushless alternator.This one, to be precise: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182140081260?_trksid=p20...
Now, its nothing special, but will do me to either turn and sell or keep myself. Had it back tonight and it wont start, so stripped down, ordered new spark plug, spark plug cap and fuel tap. Already have some new oil so thats fine, and the carb looks in incredibly good condition, much better than I was expecting.
So, assuming I can get the engine running fine - which I should be able to - what do I then need to test on the generator part of it. How do I test it is putting out the correct power in the right way?
If it works it will be fine to power lights and power tools, but is wouldn’t use it on anything electronic as the regulation isn’t that good.
spikeyhead said:
At least I know what to do when I retire, start making inverters
any idea what the alternator puts out?You can pick up double conversion APC UPS' for next to nothing.
In fact before buying the IG3000, my plan was to buy a low cost avr genny and feed it into a APC SURT double conversion ups to end up with pure sinewave.
Some Gump said:
herewego said:
I'm surprised paint stripper dissolved the resin. What's the reason for the resin, can't be just waterproofing, is it to stop people repairing them?
I think most things covered in resin are found in places with vibrations. Lots of weight on a little leg / solder joint.Ok, so my cheap chinese genny is so far so good... windings look good, put new spark plug and HT lead end and some fresh fuel and it started up right away! Both outputs work well, and it runs smoothly under load.
However, it doesnt stop! There is a switch on the front which is run/stop, and its obviously not working. Now, it appears, that there is a lead from there which goes into a small circuit board, and then into the end of the magneto/spark producing thing. Can anyone suggest what might be up with it? Is it just a simple connection - they all look okay, or is there something obvious Im missing?
However, it doesnt stop! There is a switch on the front which is run/stop, and its obviously not working. Now, it appears, that there is a lead from there which goes into a small circuit board, and then into the end of the magneto/spark producing thing. Can anyone suggest what might be up with it? Is it just a simple connection - they all look okay, or is there something obvious Im missing?
Lets see if this works
As you can see, it simply earths out the electric current from the magneto, so when its 'off' the electric current runs down the earth wire, and connects to the bolt at the back of the box, which it shares with the earths for the 240v plugs. The circuit board appears to be do with the low oil cut off. Now, the earth bolt at the back is insulated from the plastic box with some small rubber washers, but doesnt actually earth TO anything. Just stops. Should there be a wire from there down to the frame, or the genny, or something? Earths normally, well, earth somewhere!
As you can see, it simply earths out the electric current from the magneto, so when its 'off' the electric current runs down the earth wire, and connects to the bolt at the back of the box, which it shares with the earths for the 240v plugs. The circuit board appears to be do with the low oil cut off. Now, the earth bolt at the back is insulated from the plastic box with some small rubber washers, but doesnt actually earth TO anything. Just stops. Should there be a wire from there down to the frame, or the genny, or something? Earths normally, well, earth somewhere!
Condi said:
Should there be a wire from there down to the frame, or the genny, or something? Earths normally, well, earth somewhere!
Yes, there's a missing wire; presumably there's a black market trade in earth wires being run out the back door of the Happy Dragon No.1 Generator and Firecracker Factory by the chap who's job it is to fit it.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff