The ebay generator restoration thread
Discussion
guindilias said:
I'd love to see a Listeroid torn down and rebuilt with genuine parts.
Happy to chip in if it needs a bit of cash!
A lister would be interesting to tinker with, but they tend to be big and heavy so not easy to get up to the “workshop”Happy to chip in if it needs a bit of cash!
Latest progress, the new brushes for the starter motor turned up.
New brushes are about twice the length of the old brushes (old right new left)
Got the starter motor reassembled and tested.
Next was the new head gasket and oil feed o-ring.
Cylinder head and cambelt refitted
Reassembly started, didn’t take many photos as it’s all been seen before earlier in the thread.
Starter motor back in place and reconnected.
Nearly finished, engine refilled with oil and coolant, just got to refit the fuel tank and front panel.
More progress made yesterday, got the front panel and electrics refitted.
Also fitted new spark plugs.
Now the generator was back together I wanted try the LPG kit I removed from the EX4000, the installation is pretty simple.
To get the gas into the engine a collar which fits between carburetor and air filter has to be installed.
Gas collar, the hose goes to the regulator
Opening for gas
Stud extensions have to be used to allow for the extra thickness of the gas collar.
Gas collar fitted to intake
I had to make a plate to hold the air intake on as the stud extensions weren’t a perfect fit. Once I know it works, I’ll make something better.
I temporally fitted the gas regulator.
The regulator works by using the induction pulse to act on a diaphragm which opens a valve to let the gas flow. The pipe between the gas collar and regulator needs be kept as short as possible for best operation.
To start the engine the primer button on the regulator has to be pressed for a couple of seconds to inject some gas into the intake and the choke has to be disabled as it’ not needed for LPG.
Moment of truth, will it work?
Of course, it does
(note position of fuel valve!)
Happily running a 2kw load with no problems.
Best of all with this setup, if I want to run it on petrol it’s just a case of filling the tank with petrol and re enabling the choke and it will run as before.
Only thing I don’t know is if its running rich or lean as there is no “mixture” adjustment on the regulator. I’m going on the theory it should be rich ish…
The kit was removed from a single cylinder 340cc engine and is now on a 2 cylinder 360cc engine, I’m going on the theory that it is now feeding two 180cc cylinders so should be rich?
I decided to remove the spark plugs to see if there is any clue on how its running.
The engine had been running under load for 15-20 min, the only thing I could see on the spark plug was a white coating on the negative electrode (both spark plugs the same). Apart from that there was nothing else.
Did a quick bit of googling, but couldn’t find anything definitive on how spark plugs should look when running LPG.
Next step is to try and fit the regulator properly, trouble is there isn’t much space inside the case.
Also fitted new spark plugs.
Now the generator was back together I wanted try the LPG kit I removed from the EX4000, the installation is pretty simple.
To get the gas into the engine a collar which fits between carburetor and air filter has to be installed.
Gas collar, the hose goes to the regulator
Opening for gas
Stud extensions have to be used to allow for the extra thickness of the gas collar.
Gas collar fitted to intake
I had to make a plate to hold the air intake on as the stud extensions weren’t a perfect fit. Once I know it works, I’ll make something better.
I temporally fitted the gas regulator.
The regulator works by using the induction pulse to act on a diaphragm which opens a valve to let the gas flow. The pipe between the gas collar and regulator needs be kept as short as possible for best operation.
To start the engine the primer button on the regulator has to be pressed for a couple of seconds to inject some gas into the intake and the choke has to be disabled as it’ not needed for LPG.
Moment of truth, will it work?
Of course, it does
(note position of fuel valve!)Happily running a 2kw load with no problems.
Best of all with this setup, if I want to run it on petrol it’s just a case of filling the tank with petrol and re enabling the choke and it will run as before.
Only thing I don’t know is if its running rich or lean as there is no “mixture” adjustment on the regulator. I’m going on the theory it should be rich ish…
The kit was removed from a single cylinder 340cc engine and is now on a 2 cylinder 360cc engine, I’m going on the theory that it is now feeding two 180cc cylinders so should be rich?
I decided to remove the spark plugs to see if there is any clue on how its running.
The engine had been running under load for 15-20 min, the only thing I could see on the spark plug was a white coating on the negative electrode (both spark plugs the same). Apart from that there was nothing else.
Did a quick bit of googling, but couldn’t find anything definitive on how spark plugs should look when running LPG.
Next step is to try and fit the regulator properly, trouble is there isn’t much space inside the case.
Edited by Blue32 on Sunday 2nd December 12:42
I found the gas jet, it was screwed inside a barbed hose fitting.
Jet removed, the hole in the jet is 3.4mm and is used to meter the amount of gas the engine can draw in.
Some gas conversions use an adjustable valve to control the gas flow which has the advantage it can be fine tuned while the engine is running. More on this later.
I wasn’t happy with using the gas collar as it made the intake stick out too far which was stopping the side door from being closed.
So I came up with the idea to modify the carburettor to take the gas fitting so the collar wouldn’t be needed.
I had a spare carburettor I had bought as a parts donor for the fuel shutoff valve.
The plan is to mount the gas fitting on the side something like this.
Marked where to drill the hole for the fitting
Gas fitting installed, best of all the carb will still work on petrol
Unfortunately, as I was about to fit the modified carburettor I discovered a major problem. The carburettor air passage was different to the original (right)
[/url]
I did try fitting the modified carburettor, but the throttle butterfly was catching on the intake manifold so wouldn’t open. Oh well back to the drawing board….
Back to the gas jet.
After contacting someone who has converted a EX5500 to run on LPG I found the gas jet should be 4.4mm, so I decided to make my own jet instead of drilling out the jet I had (in case it needs fine tuning)
I started with a 9.5mm steel bar, using a die I cut a 1/8 NPT thread on the outside of the bar, I cut a small piece of the bar and clamped it between two vee bocks to hold it parallel (made these during engineering apprenticeship)
My jet vs the original
It even screws into the barbed fitting
Its not perfect as ideally it should have been made on a lathe, but I’m happy and it should work. The hole I drilled is 4.1mm, I did it this way so I can test and fine tune once it’s all fitted back on the generator.
Jet removed, the hole in the jet is 3.4mm and is used to meter the amount of gas the engine can draw in.
Some gas conversions use an adjustable valve to control the gas flow which has the advantage it can be fine tuned while the engine is running. More on this later.
I wasn’t happy with using the gas collar as it made the intake stick out too far which was stopping the side door from being closed.
So I came up with the idea to modify the carburettor to take the gas fitting so the collar wouldn’t be needed.
I had a spare carburettor I had bought as a parts donor for the fuel shutoff valve.
The plan is to mount the gas fitting on the side something like this.
Marked where to drill the hole for the fitting
Gas fitting installed, best of all the carb will still work on petrol
Unfortunately, as I was about to fit the modified carburettor I discovered a major problem. The carburettor air passage was different to the original (right)
[/url]I did try fitting the modified carburettor, but the throttle butterfly was catching on the intake manifold so wouldn’t open. Oh well back to the drawing board….
Back to the gas jet.
After contacting someone who has converted a EX5500 to run on LPG I found the gas jet should be 4.4mm, so I decided to make my own jet instead of drilling out the jet I had (in case it needs fine tuning)
I started with a 9.5mm steel bar, using a die I cut a 1/8 NPT thread on the outside of the bar, I cut a small piece of the bar and clamped it between two vee bocks to hold it parallel (made these during engineering apprenticeship)
My jet vs the original
It even screws into the barbed fitting
Its not perfect as ideally it should have been made on a lathe, but I’m happy and it should work. The hole I drilled is 4.1mm, I did it this way so I can test and fine tune once it’s all fitted back on the generator.
Blue32 said:
Unfortunately, as I was about to fit the modified carburettor I discovered a major problem.
Story of my life.(the getting near the end of the project and the "oh, s
t" moment!)Any reason why you can't fit the gas inlet to the original carb?
Or maybe sleeve the new 'un and swap butterflies?
Although might there be other differences - jets etc?
jet_noise said:
Story of my life.
(the getting near the end of the project and the "oh, st" moment!)
Any reason why you can't fit the gas inlet to the original carb?
Or maybe sleeve the new 'un and swap butterflies?
Although might there be other differences - jets etc?
I didn't want to alter the original carb as they are not available any more. The risk was that if it hadn't worked the engine wouldn't run on either petrol or gas.(the getting near the end of the project and the "oh, s
t" moment!)Any reason why you can't fit the gas inlet to the original carb?
Or maybe sleeve the new 'un and swap butterflies?
Although might there be other differences - jets etc?
Fired the engine up today with the new gas fitted and loaded it up to 4kW, all appeared to be OK. The engine maintained the correct speed was spot on 50Hz, only minor issue was off load there was an occasional backfire.
I think this is due to the "wasted spark" ignition, the spark plugs fire on each revolution of the engine, instead on every 4th revolution like a car engine so i think the fuel air mix is occasionally igniting on the intake stroke.
A bit more investigation/experimentation required.....
jet_noise said:
Blue32 said:
Unfortunately, as I was about to fit the modified carburettor I discovered a major problem.
Story of my life.(the getting near the end of the project and the "oh, s
t" moment!)Any reason why you can't fit the gas inlet to the original carb?
Or maybe sleeve the new 'un and swap butterflies?
Although might there be other differences - jets etc?
I’m back!
New project:
The problem with this one is it has a broken rope on the pull start (pull handle and remains of rope in front of generator)
Disassembly started, nice and clean inside which makes a change
Getting closer
There we go
The old EX5500 makes a nice work bench
Unfortunately the captive nuts which hold the pull start assembly to the engine cover decided not to be captive so had to do more disassembly
Engine cover removed, now I can see what happened.
Those plastic bits in the middle of the ring with the rope should attach the ring to the to the pull start, so new parts needed.
My plan is to get it partially reassembled so I can test it makes power before I start buying parts. Also need to work on freeing up the bolts that hold the pull start to the engine cover
To be continued
New project:
The problem with this one is it has a broken rope on the pull start (pull handle and remains of rope in front of generator)
Disassembly started, nice and clean inside which makes a change
Getting closer
There we go
The old EX5500 makes a nice work bench
Unfortunately the captive nuts which hold the pull start assembly to the engine cover decided not to be captive so had to do more disassembly
Engine cover removed, now I can see what happened.
Those plastic bits in the middle of the ring with the rope should attach the ring to the to the pull start, so new parts needed.
My plan is to get it partially reassembled so I can test it makes power before I start buying parts. Also need to work on freeing up the bolts that hold the pull start to the engine cover
To be continued
Welcome back!
After reading this thread I obtained a petrol cement mixer that was "hard to start"..
Carb was shot, coil was shot, points were shot, starting rope was shot, tank was shot. Then I took the head off, and a ring had broken, destroyed the bore, and dragged metalwork into the sump and taken out the piston.
I'm now slowly looking for a replacement 3.5 briggs horizontal engine.
Keep your updates coming please!
After reading this thread I obtained a petrol cement mixer that was "hard to start"..
Carb was shot, coil was shot, points were shot, starting rope was shot, tank was shot. Then I took the head off, and a ring had broken, destroyed the bore, and dragged metalwork into the sump and taken out the piston.
I'm now slowly looking for a replacement 3.5 briggs horizontal engine.
Keep your updates coming please!
Peanut Gallery said:
Welcome back!
After reading this thread I obtained a petrol cement mixer that was "hard to start"..
Carb was shot, coil was shot, points were shot, starting rope was shot, tank was shot. Then I took the head off, and a ring had broken, destroyed the bore, and dragged metalwork into the sump and taken out the piston.
I'm now slowly looking for a replacement 3.5 briggs horizontal engine.
Keep your updates coming please!
That'll be because blue32 has all the good ones!After reading this thread I obtained a petrol cement mixer that was "hard to start"..
Carb was shot, coil was shot, points were shot, starting rope was shot, tank was shot. Then I took the head off, and a ring had broken, destroyed the bore, and dragged metalwork into the sump and taken out the piston.
I'm now slowly looking for a replacement 3.5 briggs horizontal engine.
Keep your updates coming please!
Thanks for the comments everyone, its good to see there is interest in this. Sorry I haven’t been able to post much as there haven’t been many that have come up that were worthwhile buying and fixing.
I did start looking at Lawn tractors as something else to tinker with, but i just don't have the space or access to the shed/workshop to get one to where it can be worked on
On the positive side I have now got the LPG kit installed on the EX5500 now and sorted most of the bugs/running issues, I’ll get some photos and a write up done at some point.
The case seems to be the same sort of plastic as Tupperware and just sort of clips together in places. It will be interesting to see what it sounds like once its all back together, I suspect it will be running a reasonably high engine speed to achieve the rated (1.9kW)/max (2.3kW) output as its only a 96cc engine. A 2.2kW Honda (EU22i) has a 120cc engine so I suspect it will be working quite hard when compared with the Honda.
It does have some niceties like a 12v lighter socket, and it can be paralleled with another unit to get double the output.
I did start looking at Lawn tractors as something else to tinker with, but i just don't have the space or access to the shed/workshop to get one to where it can be worked on
On the positive side I have now got the LPG kit installed on the EX5500 now and sorted most of the bugs/running issues, I’ll get some photos and a write up done at some point.
eliot said:
what’s the quality like (low i suspect)
Well it’s not a Honda, that’s for sure, I think the state of the bits of plastic in the pull start says it all, but still costs £532 to buy new today! And is supposedly made in America, not sure if that’s a good thing? The case seems to be the same sort of plastic as Tupperware and just sort of clips together in places. It will be interesting to see what it sounds like once its all back together, I suspect it will be running a reasonably high engine speed to achieve the rated (1.9kW)/max (2.3kW) output as its only a 96cc engine. A 2.2kW Honda (EU22i) has a 120cc engine so I suspect it will be working quite hard when compared with the Honda.
It does have some niceties like a 12v lighter socket, and it can be paralleled with another unit to get double the output.
I've got the earlier version of that Champion genny. Looks near identical and has the same 96cc engine, only it's rated at 1600/2000W rather than the 1900/2300 of the newer one.
Seems quite a well made little machine, and the output voltage and frequency are impressively stable. Pretty quiet as well.
Seems quite a well made little machine, and the output voltage and frequency are impressively stable. Pretty quiet as well.
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