Removing chimney breast - Surely not simple?

[SimonD]

I've read a few threads of people removing chimney breasts as part of a refit or overhaul of a house.

The thing is, where a chimney stack goes up through a first floor, surely the joists are supported by the stack, like where they normally meet a wall? What's the 'norm' here. If you take out are stack, aren't you also removing the support for the joists?

I have a 'flu' chimney from my boiler in a cupboard in the kitchen I could get rid of, but if it's supporting the first floor I'd rather not!

[pidsy]

Take the stack out to above the ceiling height then support with gallows brackets.

Patch in the missing bit of ceiling and job jobbed.

[SimonD]

Makes sense, thanks.

As per here, after searching for 'gallows brackets'.

So is this anticipating supporting the floor above by using the gallows brackets to support the remainingstack, and by proxy supporting the floor?

[wolfracesonic]

The floor joists are usually 'trimmed' around the chimney breast I.E no joist ends rest on the chimney breast brickwork itself.
For good reason if you think about it: would you want timber being exposed to hot flue gases and possibly sparks , flames etc. from a fire place?

[pidsy]

as said above. you shouldnt have any supporting parts of your joists in the chimney stack.

the pic you linked to is correct.

[SimonD]

Thanks chaps. Good info.

[TA14]

That's info on supporting it vertically. You also need to assess the lateral stability of the remaining structure; there are two main areas here: does it give substantial lateral restraint to the wall to which it is attached and does that help with the overal stability of the house; secondly will you be putting a torque into the remaining wall and how will that be resisted?

[henrycrun]

Keep the chimbly. One day you will need a proper fire.

[TA14]

When we can't get gas from Russia?

[Busa mav]

TA14 said:

That's info on supporting it vertically. You also need to assess the lateral stability of the remaining structure; there are two main areas here: does it give substantial lateral restraint to the wall to which it is attached and does that help with the overal stability of the house; secondly will you be putting a torque into the remaining wall and how will that be resisted?

^^^^^^^ Absolutely this ^^^^^^^^

Whatever you do , take note of what is written above, particularly the last sentence.

Gallows brackets can be the work of the devil in these situations.

[Steffan]

Busa mav said:

TA14 said:

That's info on supporting it vertically. You also need to assess the lateral stability of the remaining structure; there are two main areas here: does it give substantial lateral restraint to the wall to which it is attached and does that help with the overal stability of the house; secondly will you be putting a torque into the remaining wall and how will that be resisted?

^^^^^^^ Absolutely this ^^^^^^^^

Whatever you do , take note of what is written above, particularly the last sentence.

Gallows brackets can be the work of the devil in these situations.

Good advice.

Many years ago I inhereted a number of housing association refurbs when the association I then ran took over another. We knew there were problems with these which is why we took them over at the Housing Corporations request. In several cases the chimneys had been removed without adequate additional strengthening and the whole remaining chimney was just hanging on the wall.

Visible structural dstortion and serious cracking was immediately obvious. We ended up with Ove Arup designing specific purpose made steelwork to rectify the load on the remaining wall and it was a very expensive operation indeed to fit this and correct the faults.

I would suggest never making any structural alterations to an existing building without first consulting a structural engineer must be the best approach. That is what I recommend personally because I have seen first hand how difficult it can be to correct alterations that should not have been made. It really must be the best way to ensure a long lasting result.

[SimonD]

Thanks chaps.

Some good info.

FWIW I have a chimney in my lounge - that's fine and staying. It's the one for the old boiler fly in the kitchen that should go as it's using up a lot of space in the corner of the kitchen and as the boiler flu is now out the back and through the wall it's just not needed anymore. If I got a professional to take down the chimney outside and then make good the roof I'm sure I could 'work downards' and finish removing it all internally...

[Pheo]

We have the same thing, but we also have some wierd cupboard right next to it as well which appears to be structural (or atleast the ways the walls are built it appears that way)

Irritating, but we worked out the house wouldn't benefit from removing it from a value prospective (its a terraced ex council place). Plus the cupboard is housing all my expensive tools so they arn't in the shed!

[allgonepetetong]

I must have taken a dozen chimney breasts out over the years using the gallows bracket method.

Not so much as a sign of even cracked plaster 20 years later.

Easy job, get a breaker and get in there.