Home Automation - lighting & media
Discussion
I'd be careful with lutron today- a few people I know have systems they can't do anything with without getting out the lutron man (£300/hr and unlike older systems the software is strictly controlled license-only)
This isn't progress and it certainly isn't smart, and evan their cloakrooms have got lutron controllers for a single zone! are lutron giving this kit to luxury flat developers for free so they can make it all back in service visits these days?
This isn't progress and it certainly isn't smart, and evan their cloakrooms have got lutron controllers for a single zone! are lutron giving this kit to luxury flat developers for free so they can make it all back in service visits these days?
Cactussed said:
I have gone with Lightwave RF kit. Its simple to install (plug and play) and thus easy to change / remove. Can't complain although to be fair, we've hardly used the room since rewiring the house as its being decorated still.
Time will tell how useful the setup is I suppose.
I've used that kit on two jobs that lent themselves to a remote switching solution and had failures on both- and whats more, builder depot absolutely refuse to exchange or refund any of this kit. Time will tell how useful the setup is I suppose.
Nothing has changed as far as i am concerned, Toxic.
Rates you have indicated are right for me as well. Rescued several projects recently providing the original installer doesn't change to default password then most programs can be extracted and changed.
Even the cheap systems suffer from the same problem, on client has a Bitwise system, installer disappeared with program and you can't extract that. It's a one time upload only.
I and my programmers have a strict policy of handing all copies over to our clients. Then they have free choice over who to use and what to do. Some even ask for the program so they can tinker. Under the strict knowledge if the cock it up there is a small charge to re-install it.
V.
Rates you have indicated are right for me as well. Rescued several projects recently providing the original installer doesn't change to default password then most programs can be extracted and changed.
Even the cheap systems suffer from the same problem, on client has a Bitwise system, installer disappeared with program and you can't extract that. It's a one time upload only.
I and my programmers have a strict policy of handing all copies over to our clients. Then they have free choice over who to use and what to do. Some even ask for the program so they can tinker. Under the strict knowledge if the cock it up there is a small charge to re-install it.
V.
VEX said:
Nothing has changed as far as i am concerned, Toxic.
Rates you have indicated are right for me as well. Rescued several projects recently providing the original installer doesn't change to default password then most programs can be extracted and changed.
Even the cheap systems suffer from the same problem, on client has a Bitwise system, installer disappeared with program and you can't extract that. It's a one time upload only.
I and my programmers have a strict policy of handing all copies over to our clients. Then they have free choice over who to use and what to do. Some even ask for the program so they can tinker. Under the strict knowledge if the cock it up there is a small charge to re-install it.
V.
As getting a programmer out to rural France may be a problem, what are the alternatives for self programming with something simple? Also preferring all wiring going back to a single cabinet.Rates you have indicated are right for me as well. Rescued several projects recently providing the original installer doesn't change to default password then most programs can be extracted and changed.
Even the cheap systems suffer from the same problem, on client has a Bitwise system, installer disappeared with program and you can't extract that. It's a one time upload only.
I and my programmers have a strict policy of handing all copies over to our clients. Then they have free choice over who to use and what to do. Some even ask for the program so they can tinker. Under the strict knowledge if the cock it up there is a small charge to re-install it.
V.
I use Homeseer and a mixture of z-wave And hard wired relay modules.
Ive automated and integrated just about everything.
Presence and motion is via a plugin to the alarm system which triggers lights and also allows automatic alarm set when unoccupied and at night.
I monitor gas and water consumption and have logic to detect leakages and excessive flow.
The central heating is controlled by it. Again logic that turns the heating off when we are away and also only heats the hot water to around 50'c with a weekly boost to 65' to kill bacteria.
Ive lots of security features that triggers and pulls pictures via the cctv.
I would say its an enthusiasts product rather than a pro product and does require configuring which means creating devices and events for the logic you want.
Theres lots of people using it and its easy to find examples of things you want to try.
Software cost £250 (wait for special offers - dont pay list price)
few hundred on IO modules, cheap relay modules of ebay and expensive z-wave modules.
Whole thing is controlled via hstouch on your phone that you design and customise yourself.
Ive automated and integrated just about everything.
Presence and motion is via a plugin to the alarm system which triggers lights and also allows automatic alarm set when unoccupied and at night.
I monitor gas and water consumption and have logic to detect leakages and excessive flow.
The central heating is controlled by it. Again logic that turns the heating off when we are away and also only heats the hot water to around 50'c with a weekly boost to 65' to kill bacteria.
Ive lots of security features that triggers and pulls pictures via the cctv.
I would say its an enthusiasts product rather than a pro product and does require configuring which means creating devices and events for the logic you want.
Theres lots of people using it and its easy to find examples of things you want to try.
Software cost £250 (wait for special offers - dont pay list price)
few hundred on IO modules, cheap relay modules of ebay and expensive z-wave modules.
Whole thing is controlled via hstouch on your phone that you design and customise yourself.
Edited by eliot on Sunday 17th August 04:49
Applaud VEX's position regarding software/lock ins. Would annoy no end having paid good money for a system only to then be tied to someone for ongoing tweaks.
Had a bad enough job with our alarm installer who was (initially) insistent that he "had" to to be the only person with the installer/engineer codes to the extent that we couldn't even add new users (bit short sighted really as, solely as a result of this, his firm isn't now the one that maintains it for us...) and would be PITA with lighting where you might want to add/change things every now and again.
At £100-150 per circuit + £150-200 per wall switch (+ a good bit more if you want a few remotes / iphone control / the timer kit / interfaces) it does quickly mount up though.
Had a bad enough job with our alarm installer who was (initially) insistent that he "had" to to be the only person with the installer/engineer codes to the extent that we couldn't even add new users (bit short sighted really as, solely as a result of this, his firm isn't now the one that maintains it for us...) and would be PITA with lighting where you might want to add/change things every now and again.
elster said:
As getting a programmer out to rural France may be a problem, what are the alternatives for self programming with something simple? Also preferring all wiring going back to a single cabinet.
Rako's software is easy enough to program the basics on (coding new modules etc) and you get the software included if you buy a smart remote or bridge (used to be downloadable too but you need certain kit to actually use it). More complex programming can take a while to figure out though. At £100-150 per circuit + £150-200 per wall switch (+ a good bit more if you want a few remotes / iphone control / the timer kit / interfaces) it does quickly mount up though.
I saw a very simple system on Kickstarter the other day where you screw a WIFI thingy into your existing lighting socket and then you can control the light from your smartphone and set it up to do all sorts of stuff. I'll try and find it if it might be of interest and no I have no connection with the company.
VEX said:
Some even ask for the program so they can tinker. Under the strict knowledge if the cock it up there is a small charge to re-install it.
V.
Most of the manufacturers who we deal with would close our account if we handed over the software to the end user. There is a reason why you have to have training etc to access the software. What's to stop your client putting the software on the web?V.
To use your Lutron example a client could tinker without your knowledge and you would have to support it when their programming didn't work.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm reporting my own experience of several customers on mine with new lutron systems.One I altered some lighting and on contacting lutron tech help they informed me I would not be able to alter scenes and only they could do this; client was quoted £300/ 1 hour for their recommended man to do this.
A few customers of mine who've recently acquired luxury type apartments have experienced difficulty working lutron lighting systems and have needed costly assistance, perhaps there are other ways of working these systems but my advice was and is be to be careful what you have you installed, rather than writing off smart lighting per se.
jurbie said:
I saw a very simple system on Kickstarter the other day where you screw a WIFI thingy into your existing lighting socket and then you can control the light from your smartphone and set it up to do all sorts of stuff. I'll try and find it if it might be of interest and no I have no connection with the company.
Let's hope it's cheaper than the Philips ones that have been around a couple of years.If you're looking at DIY then you can't go too far wrong controlling lighting systems and AV kit etc with Global Cache kit and an ipad/phone/tablet/android (available here - www.globalcache.co.uk )
With lighting, I think a lot of it has been covered here, I don't think you should be looking at Lutron etc if you want to self install and commission. Unless you're talking just main rooms and then Graphic Eyes might be an option, easy to install and commission, not cheap.
Really depends on how integrated you want it, if you want basic control then maybe consider Lightwave RF or something like fibaro, MK astral.
I have a DMX based lighting control system (residential) which is relatively easy to wire, install and commission. (no software needed, bit time consuming compared to computer though!)
Might be worth looking at MK Astral and Dianemo to control it all.... PM me if you want more info.
Audio - Sonos is great, hard to argue against it as a DIY job, barely any margin for an installer though. There's plenty of good multi room audio kits out there and for larger jobs it may work out cheaper than Sonos, depends again on level of integration and whether you want wall switches for music or just ipad/iphone etc.
Most important thing and I'm sure the other installer here will back me up is that it's most important to get the right wiring to the right places and then you can work with most/all systems now and for future expansion/upgrades/changes. Technology changes so fast, but they'll always need some kind of wiring in place.
With lighting, I think a lot of it has been covered here, I don't think you should be looking at Lutron etc if you want to self install and commission. Unless you're talking just main rooms and then Graphic Eyes might be an option, easy to install and commission, not cheap.
Really depends on how integrated you want it, if you want basic control then maybe consider Lightwave RF or something like fibaro, MK astral.
I have a DMX based lighting control system (residential) which is relatively easy to wire, install and commission. (no software needed, bit time consuming compared to computer though!)
Might be worth looking at MK Astral and Dianemo to control it all.... PM me if you want more info.
Audio - Sonos is great, hard to argue against it as a DIY job, barely any margin for an installer though. There's plenty of good multi room audio kits out there and for larger jobs it may work out cheaper than Sonos, depends again on level of integration and whether you want wall switches for music or just ipad/iphone etc.
Most important thing and I'm sure the other installer here will back me up is that it's most important to get the right wiring to the right places and then you can work with most/all systems now and for future expansion/upgrades/changes. Technology changes so fast, but they'll always need some kind of wiring in place.
Just wondered how things have progressed in the last few years?
I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly
).
I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly
).monthefish said:
Just wondered how things have progressed in the last few years?
I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly ).
Phillips Hue will do that, but 26 bulbs ain't going to be cheap.I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly
).It really depends on what you consider doing more than you need and costly.
For true DIY, I would look at LightwaveRF, Z-Wave and similar. But I would not offer it as an installed solution from me.
I consider Rako to be cost effective but others have come to the market recently which I want to add to my offering. Including Loxone and HDL.
V.
For true DIY, I would look at LightwaveRF, Z-Wave and similar. But I would not offer it as an installed solution from me.
I consider Rako to be cost effective but others have come to the market recently which I want to add to my offering. Including Loxone and HDL.
V.
monthefish said:
Just wondered how things have progressed in the last few years?
I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly ).
I do that with Z-Wave and PIRs. I use a mixture of Z-Wave wall controllers and iPod Touches for control around the house and I'm slowly getting Homekit integration sorted so voice control with phones/watches is an option.I'm looking for a cost-effective system that can control around 26 different lighting circuits from an App, and at 4 key locations I'll install a wall mounted keypad that can do the same thing as the app.
Most of the systems I can find can do waaaay more than I need (and are priced accordingly
).Philips Hue is great as long as everyone in the house knows not to use the light switch, I have some Hue bulbs in certain locations for ambient lighting, using them in main switches is an issue with visitors as they tend to use the normal switch instead of the control option. That then means the light is unusable from the control interface.
The original setup costs were higher but the ongoing control I have and ability to not be stuck multiple control apps is a huge plus. Having to switch from Hue app to AV Amp/Harmony App to set rooms up for watching TV didn't meet Wife acceptance, but tapping a button on a control interface (either iPod or physical button) and having the Amp, TV, lighting and other settings automatically change was allowed!
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