Council Planners :0(
Discussion
Renovation said:
Escort3500 said:
What a stupid comment.
Yes, your experience was p**s poor, and probably similar to some other councils, but there are others that provide a pretty good service despite budget cuts and reduced staffing levels.
Please name one.Yes, your experience was p**s poor, and probably similar to some other councils, but there are others that provide a pretty good service despite budget cuts and reduced staffing levels.
I'd happily abolish all councils.
If my workload dictates I work late - I work late.
If to hit a target date I have to work at weekends - so be it.
If it means I don't go on holiday - I don't go on holiday.
They have no concept of customer care / loyalty nor competition as they don't have either and my god it shows.
decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
Renovation said:
Please name one.
I'd happily abolish all councils.
If my workload dictates I work late - I work late.
If to hit a target date I have to work at weekends - so be it.
If it means I don't go on holiday - I don't go on holiday.
They have no concept of customer care / loyalty nor competition as they don't have either and my god it shows.
Within reason yes, but only if I'm getting paid. After years of being screwed by big employers, who don't pay overtime to staff, as "you are expected to do additional overtime if the job requires it", I'm no longer prepared to have 2 weeks work to complete in a week for 52 weeks of the year and only be paid for 46 of them. I'll do a 60 hour week, but I want 60 hours of pay. I'd happily abolish all councils.
If my workload dictates I work late - I work late.
If to hit a target date I have to work at weekends - so be it.
If it means I don't go on holiday - I don't go on holiday.
They have no concept of customer care / loyalty nor competition as they don't have either and my god it shows.
Mind you I don't work in planning, just a manufacturing engineer.
Escort3500 said:
"In the year ending March 2014, district level planning authorities:
decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
So they were less bad than before.decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
"decided 70% of minor applications in 8 weeks" - why wasn't this 100% ? They have 8 weeks to shuffle a few bits of paper around.
If it was privatized to multiple companies - in the same way building control is - it would be magnitudes better.
My application could have been approved inside an hour - it meets the regs and affects no one.
They have sent out Neighbour consultations today - to neighbours who are 200m+ away and can't even see the house - they couldn't raise a valid issue if they wanted to (which they don't)
Renovation said:
So they were less bad than before.
"decided 70% of minor applications in 8 weeks" - why wasn't this 100% ? They have 8 weeks to shuffle a few bits of paper around.
If it was privatized to multiple companies - in the same way building control is - it would be magnitudes better.
My application could have been approved inside an hour - it meets the regs and affects no one.
They have sent out Neighbour consultations today - to neighbours who are 200m+ away and can't even see the house - they couldn't raise a valid issue if they wanted to (which they don't)
Why not 100%? Because not all will go through...and planners have stat consultees who don't always answer timely. If you think planners just shuffle paper about you need to look into the process a bit more"decided 70% of minor applications in 8 weeks" - why wasn't this 100% ? They have 8 weeks to shuffle a few bits of paper around.
If it was privatized to multiple companies - in the same way building control is - it would be magnitudes better.
My application could have been approved inside an hour - it meets the regs and affects no one.
They have sent out Neighbour consultations today - to neighbours who are 200m+ away and can't even see the house - they couldn't raise a valid issue if they wanted to (which they don't)
Building regs are a formality - hence the applications can be outsourced to the private sector
Whilst you 'think' your application meets regs and affects no-one it needs checking...and like it or not neighbours need to be consulted and given time to reply
The fundamental problem here is Council planning depts. have downsized due to cut backs and lack of applications in the recession. Now they have more applications (and red tape) and simply cant cope
Escort3500 said:
"In the year ending March 2014, district level planning authorities:
decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
Those stats are only part of the storydecided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
How about how long it takes to get a pre app?
How about how much it costs to get a pre app
How about how long it takes to validate
How about how long it takes to complete a S106
Of course they made more resi decisions, there were more resi applications
just had a client pay £1400 for a pre planning enquiry
as it was deemed major development.
All we wanted to know was if the planners would look favourably to a change of use, before my client commited several million into a sh*t hole area and all the jobs they would create.
Would a senior planner just sit down and give a common sense answer, no
they want there £1400 for 1 hr of chatting.
that money would have made more sense had we needed all the associated work that usually would be asked, but we just want a simple yes or no.
ive also had several applications wrongly decided, and had to go above the planners reporting individual officers for major errors.
its ok them apologising and saying just resubmit, or take advantage of the appeals process
but in a commercial world time is money, and all the time clienst are sat on commercial property the local authorities are nicely asking for their commercial rates.
Everyone in the industry has changed their opinion on planners, whereas we were sympathetic. its now a case of thinking of them as poorly organised and generally unhelpful and useless.
as it was deemed major development.
All we wanted to know was if the planners would look favourably to a change of use, before my client commited several million into a sh*t hole area and all the jobs they would create.
Would a senior planner just sit down and give a common sense answer, no
they want there £1400 for 1 hr of chatting.
that money would have made more sense had we needed all the associated work that usually would be asked, but we just want a simple yes or no.
ive also had several applications wrongly decided, and had to go above the planners reporting individual officers for major errors.
its ok them apologising and saying just resubmit, or take advantage of the appeals process
but in a commercial world time is money, and all the time clienst are sat on commercial property the local authorities are nicely asking for their commercial rates.
Everyone in the industry has changed their opinion on planners, whereas we were sympathetic. its now a case of thinking of them as poorly organised and generally unhelpful and useless.
Renovation said:
Escort3500 said:
"In the year ending March 2014, district level planning authorities:
decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
So they were less bad than before.decided 426,500 planning applications, an increase of 2% compared to the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 349,400 permissions, up 2% from the figure for the year to March 2013
granted 88% of decisions, an increase of 1% compared to the previous year
decided 70% of major applications in 13 weeks
decided 70% of minor applications and 83% of others in 8 weeks compared with 68% and 81% respectively in the previous year
made 8% more residential decisions compared to the previous year, with major residential decisions up by 31%
(Source:DCLG)
"decided 70% of minor applications in 8 weeks" - why wasn't this 100% ? They have 8 weeks to shuffle a few bits of paper around.
If it was privatized to multiple companies - in the same way building control is - it would be magnitudes better.
My application could have been approved inside an hour - it meets the regs and affects no one.
They have sent out Neighbour consultations today - to neighbours who are 200m+ away and can't even see the house - they couldn't raise a valid issue if they wanted to (which they don't)
If the system was privatised it might be better, but it wouldn't do away with the consultation process (and the delays that entails) without a change in legislation. The planning system is a democratic process whoever administers it.
The planning dept for my local authority would be unemployable if they ever had to go into the private sector.
What they are good at however is future proofing thier own jobs! They seem to have created a difficult system for no other reason than to give themselves work.
Now things are moving again most can't cope with the workload!
What they are good at however is future proofing thier own jobs! They seem to have created a difficult system for no other reason than to give themselves work.
Now things are moving again most can't cope with the workload!
Escort3500 said:
You clearly don't understand the process fully. Council's have a legal obligation to consult neighbours, parish/town councils and quite often other parties before determining a planning application, irrespective of the scale of the proposal
And how do you know that the neighbours in the example you refer to can't raise a valid issue? They might live 200m away but they are entitled to comment if they think it affects them, even if it may not be valid in planning terms. How do you know that they don't want to? It's only your view that "it affects no-one" and "meets the regs" ( I assume you mean planning policies).
If the system was privatised it might be better, but it wouldn't do away with the consultation process (and the delays that entails) without a change in legislation. The planning system is a democratic process whoever administers it.
No I do and it needs changing.And how do you know that the neighbours in the example you refer to can't raise a valid issue? They might live 200m away but they are entitled to comment if they think it affects them, even if it may not be valid in planning terms. How do you know that they don't want to? It's only your view that "it affects no-one" and "meets the regs" ( I assume you mean planning policies).
If the system was privatised it might be better, but it wouldn't do away with the consultation process (and the delays that entails) without a change in legislation. The planning system is a democratic process whoever administers it.
As I've talked to the neighbours and could get letters of support if that would speed it up. But even if I hadn't, how could it affect them ? A small single storey extension of 1 bedroom and bathroom, on a 2 acre residential curtilage, that they can't see, can't be seen from the road and is at least 200m from their land plus I'm actually reducing the size of the house as I'm having to demolish more area downstairs to get a smaller area upstairs.
It would speed up the entire process on a previous application a numpty wanted to wait for a reply from Severn Trent about affecting their sewers in the area - there weren't any adopted sewers for 2 miles ! I don't know of any successful companies that take weeks to return phone calls and much of the delay is before they register the application - about 8 weeks in my case.
jules_s said:
I'd wager 99.9% of applications that don't get registered are lacking in content
If a planning application is put in and ticks all of the registrars tick boxes it get registered as valid
Mine was registered as valid - I spoke to the Council and got the Planning Number.If a planning application is put in and ticks all of the registrars tick boxes it get registered as valid
But then took 2 weeks to get to the Planner, who said it wasn't.
Development Control should be easy to fix IMO
1. Politicians Agree Policy - Local Plan, UDP etc
2. Planning Officers Test applications against policy
3. The T&C Planning Act is followed more closely. If there wasn't so much needless red tape then officers wouldn't be so stretched. (They are not really stretched, they have too much time off and too many sick days, too short hours and no motivation to get the job done)
But my very first planning committee did give me sympathy with officers that I have since lost.
In my first committee in the Cotswolds, every application for resi development was recommended for refusal apart from mine. The refusals were rubber stamped by committee
When it came to my turn, the deputy chair stood up and said "I can't believe our officers have let us down again by recommending a development for approval, I move that it is refused"
the motion was seconded and it was refused unanimously without any discussion about its merits or policy whatsoever.
1. Politicians Agree Policy - Local Plan, UDP etc
2. Planning Officers Test applications against policy
3. The T&C Planning Act is followed more closely. If there wasn't so much needless red tape then officers wouldn't be so stretched. (They are not really stretched, they have too much time off and too many sick days, too short hours and no motivation to get the job done)
But my very first planning committee did give me sympathy with officers that I have since lost.
In my first committee in the Cotswolds, every application for resi development was recommended for refusal apart from mine. The refusals were rubber stamped by committee
When it came to my turn, the deputy chair stood up and said "I can't believe our officers have let us down again by recommending a development for approval, I move that it is refused"
the motion was seconded and it was refused unanimously without any discussion about its merits or policy whatsoever.
jules_s said:
If it has a planning number its registered. And the clock ticks.
Sounds to me like your officer is spouting BS
The problem is if I open with "That's BS you've got 6 weeks left so extract your finger from your arse and get on with it"Sounds to me like your officer is spouting BS
Do you think I'm going to get an Approval or Refusal ?
Renovation said:
The problem is if I open with "That's BS you've got 6 weeks left so extract your finger from your arse and get on with it"
Do you think I'm going to get an Approval or Refusal ?
Probably won't make any difference but there's little point in chasing. LPAs are so understaffed since they sacked them all in the height of the recession. You'll be lucky to get a decision in 8 weeks and some of mine have taken up to 6 months with my most recent taking a further 12 months to discharge conditions!Do you think I'm going to get an Approval or Refusal ?
The best you could do would be to appeal for non-determination but that's a fat waste of time and will cost you money.
As a company we probably make circa 350 applications a year and the decisions are taking longer than ever to register and determine
Having worked in a Local Authority for a decade, before getting out and joining consultancy, I'd like to think I have a reasonably balanced view of the industry and how LPAs generally work.
For the most part, planners in local authorities these days have no concept of the commercial realities involved in the industry, and spend inordinate amounts of time focussing on unimportant details, rather than being able to get to the meat of the matter.
This is largely down to working conditions and salaries which dictate that the majority of planners in Councils now fall into two categories, either young up-starts who don't know any better, or bitter and wisened old birds who are just waiting for their pension to cash in. There are a few good planners left in LPAs, but they're thin and far between.
For the most part, planners in local authorities these days have no concept of the commercial realities involved in the industry, and spend inordinate amounts of time focussing on unimportant details, rather than being able to get to the meat of the matter.
This is largely down to working conditions and salaries which dictate that the majority of planners in Councils now fall into two categories, either young up-starts who don't know any better, or bitter and wisened old birds who are just waiting for their pension to cash in. There are a few good planners left in LPAs, but they're thin and far between.
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