toilet pan in bathroom, cistern in loft?
Discussion
Hi all,
Firstly thanks so much for those that take the time to reply to my incessant requests for advice - its very appreciated!
This time I have an idea to put the cistern in the small loft above the bathroom (typical Victorian layout with a (small) bathroom at the back) and chase some flat pipe into the wall to feed the pan directly so as to save a little space and not have weird angles and build vortices with piers etc as you would with a more conventional high mounted cistern.
My obvious concern is that I will have 10+ litres with a 2.5 metre head that a standard pan will not expect - though I did think the flatter pipe might shave a little off this. Actually thinking about it - the flat pipe will do bugger all and it will thunder into the pan unless there is some way of telling it to slow down. But is this such a problem?
I appreciate the normal way of having a dual flush toilet simply will not work but I am ok with having a single flush 'volume' so is there any mileage in this?
There are options obviously with regard to a pull chain or a remote system - a bit like being in an upmarket hotel I suppose - which I am not sure of - but it remains an option.
Fundamentally though - has anyone headed down such a route before and found success? I absolutely hate close coupled systems and while I appreciate access might be more troublesome, relocating the whole thing while I am completely stripping the bathroom would be nice? As I say, the house is Victorian and downstairs I want to keep period - but the bathroom would be nice if it enjoyed some contemporary innovation....
Oh - ETA I am replacing the soil stack before it falls down so moving the toilet pan back to the wall is absolutely on the cards and shouldn't present any problems for my ever patient plumber!
Firstly thanks so much for those that take the time to reply to my incessant requests for advice - its very appreciated!
This time I have an idea to put the cistern in the small loft above the bathroom (typical Victorian layout with a (small) bathroom at the back) and chase some flat pipe into the wall to feed the pan directly so as to save a little space and not have weird angles and build vortices with piers etc as you would with a more conventional high mounted cistern.
My obvious concern is that I will have 10+ litres with a 2.5 metre head that a standard pan will not expect - though I did think the flatter pipe might shave a little off this. Actually thinking about it - the flat pipe will do bugger all and it will thunder into the pan unless there is some way of telling it to slow down. But is this such a problem?
I appreciate the normal way of having a dual flush toilet simply will not work but I am ok with having a single flush 'volume' so is there any mileage in this?
There are options obviously with regard to a pull chain or a remote system - a bit like being in an upmarket hotel I suppose - which I am not sure of - but it remains an option.
Fundamentally though - has anyone headed down such a route before and found success? I absolutely hate close coupled systems and while I appreciate access might be more troublesome, relocating the whole thing while I am completely stripping the bathroom would be nice? As I say, the house is Victorian and downstairs I want to keep period - but the bathroom would be nice if it enjoyed some contemporary innovation....
Oh - ETA I am replacing the soil stack before it falls down so moving the toilet pan back to the wall is absolutely on the cards and shouldn't present any problems for my ever patient plumber!
Edited by paolow on Wednesday 20th August 20:10
I think my only concern with the op's idea, and this may be his concern too, is the amount of splashing caused by such a violent flush. I have a high level cistern and with the lid down when flushed, there are plenty of splashes of water on it. Add another 3 or 4ft head and there could be a mess!
If they are connected by copper pipe, how about flattening it a bit in the middle?
As for activating it, some cisterns use an 'air-puff' method, connecting button and cistern with thin flexible plastic tube to transmit a small puff of air. Just fit longer tube!
NB Whereabouts on the pan does the pipe connect?
As for activating it, some cisterns use an 'air-puff' method, connecting button and cistern with thin flexible plastic tube to transmit a small puff of air. Just fit longer tube!
NB Whereabouts on the pan does the pipe connect?
A lot of high level wc's have a restrictor just before the pan to stop splashing, it is just a disc with a smaller hole in it, it fits between the pan and the flush pipe rubber cone.
Use a Grohe Adagio single flush concealed cistern (6litres) you will have to modify the flush pipe, but you should be able to extend the air button upto the loft.
Use a Grohe Adagio single flush concealed cistern (6litres) you will have to modify the flush pipe, but you should be able to extend the air button upto the loft.
bernhund said:
I think my only concern with the op's idea, and this may be his concern too, is the amount of splashing caused by such a violent flush. I have a high level cistern and with the lid down when flushed, there are plenty of splashes of water on it. Add another 3 or 4ft head and there could be a mess!
mine does that, luckily its in an outhouse so rarely gets usedi guess the OP could adjust the pipe between the cistern and loo to slow the delivery of water down
Thanks for the pointers guys 
I'll have a quick research for the brands as suggested - its nice to know there are options! I don't THINK there would be much of an issue of freezing in the loft - we can always lag the cistern - though I have just spotted the infra red heater on the wall takes its power from the loft and my money is on taking it's power from the lighting ring main. Awesome. How this place hasn't burnt down yet is anyone's guess but bit by bit we are making good!
I'll have a quick research for the brands as suggested - its nice to know there are options! I don't THINK there would be much of an issue of freezing in the loft - we can always lag the cistern - though I have just spotted the infra red heater on the wall takes its power from the loft and my money is on taking it's power from the lighting ring main. Awesome. How this place hasn't burnt down yet is anyone's guess but bit by bit we are making good!
I was involved in fitting something similar as an apprentice years ago.
It was an old Victorian manor house. The pan sat inside an arched alcove, with an old lead cistern above. We fitted a plastic cistern inside it, we dropped a chain through the arch to operate the flush and piped the flush pipe in 32mm solvent weld, concealed behind some panelling.
That was probably around 2.5m head, if not more. It was forceful, but didn't cause any issues.
I also removed a flush valve set up from a house recently. The toilets were fed from a cistern in the garage roof (bungalow) and 35mm copper run to chrome push button valves above the pans. That was probably 3.5M head, but the valves may have restricted the flow a bit.
It was an old Victorian manor house. The pan sat inside an arched alcove, with an old lead cistern above. We fitted a plastic cistern inside it, we dropped a chain through the arch to operate the flush and piped the flush pipe in 32mm solvent weld, concealed behind some panelling.
That was probably around 2.5m head, if not more. It was forceful, but didn't cause any issues.
I also removed a flush valve set up from a house recently. The toilets were fed from a cistern in the garage roof (bungalow) and 35mm copper run to chrome push button valves above the pans. That was probably 3.5M head, but the valves may have restricted the flow a bit.
bernhund said:
Saniflo do a mains water flush toilet...probably not the prettiest of loo's though!
my down stairs loo is one of these. Noisy bigger & spares prices are a joke but works well. Just 15MM flexibility in and 32mm waste out. All in a small pan size. It's called a Sanicompact, it's French which answers a lot.Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff