Charles Church
Discussion
crankedup said:
CC was one of the quality stand-out big developers 40 years back, I can distinctly recall just how good their house building was. So it is saddening that they have seemingly succumbed to join the ranks of 'knock'em out' lowest denominator status.
My CC house was built around 1974, so it fits right in with your comment. I didn't know it was a CC house until quite recently when chatting to a neighbour who has lived there from new. I remember feeling pleased when I heard this (my OH too as she'd always wanted a CC house). It's certainly built strongly as even details like the upstairs stud walls seem to have much more wood in them than my last 1970s (non CC) house. Seems a shame if they've 'cheapened out' and are just relying on the name...I can't understand why they'd put chimneys on a modern house anyway (my 70s house doesn't have or need one), but to make them out of plastic seems just...naff. Probably goes with the plastic 'wood' front door as well I suppose.
OldSkoolRS said:
crankedup said:
CC was one of the quality stand-out big developers 40 years back, I can distinctly recall just how good their house building was. So it is saddening that they have seemingly succumbed to join the ranks of 'knock'em out' lowest denominator status.
My CC house was built around 1974, so it fits right in with your comment. I didn't know it was a CC house until quite recently when chatting to a neighbour who has lived there from new. I remember feeling pleased when I heard this (my OH too as she'd always wanted a CC house). It's certainly built strongly as even details like the upstairs stud walls seem to have much more wood in them than my last 1970s (non CC) house. Seems a shame if they've 'cheapened out' and are just relying on the name...I can't understand why they'd put chimneys on a modern house anyway (my 70s house doesn't have or need one), but to make them out of plastic seems just...naff. Probably goes with the plastic 'wood' front door as well I suppose.
blueg33 said:
I am a former Director of Charles Church and I left about 6 months after the Persimmon takeover.
I left because in my opinion Persimmon completely missed the point of Charles Church and the values that made the Brand. There are very few properly recognised brands in housebuilding, Berkeley and Charles Church were probably the two best known.
One of the first jobs I had to do after the takeover was take Persimmon Housetypes and brief an architect on Charles Churchifying them. Ie giving them a slightly better suit of clothes and a nicer front door. Now they are just badge engineered Persimmon volume houses, but generally offer a higher spec than standard Persimmon and have more spent on kerb appeal.
Its not as though the Charles Church model was losing money either (well some regions were), my region was in profit every year. Our average house was 1800sqft and our largest new build was 4200sqft. Our apartments ranged from 500sqft 1 beds to 1800 sqft 3 beds.
I am still proud of the Charles Church sites we did and still go out of my way to look at them if I am in the area. Although I wasn't in sales, I showed David Ginola around a house is Little Aston Park (£1.2m about 13 years ago).
CC was a great Company, yes it had some difficulties after Charles died (in a Spitfire plane crash!), it was effectively saved by Beazer but they messed up a deal with Bryant Homes to merge and left themselves exposed to Persimmon.
Persimmon are a very aggressive volume builder, that really know what they are doing with everything other than upper market housebuilding. They are superb and balancing risk and reward.
If I could raise the equity, I would set up a housebuilder in the Charles Church image, but modern land and material prices mean that the equity required is huge and there would be no advantage of the Brand. (We could always add something to the selling price because of the brand).
If anyone has a spare £20m knocking about and fancies a go at building an upmarket new home brand then pm me
As an ex persimmon site manager i agree with the above. Charlie church would turn in his grave if he seen what's being built now under his name. I left because in my opinion Persimmon completely missed the point of Charles Church and the values that made the Brand. There are very few properly recognised brands in housebuilding, Berkeley and Charles Church were probably the two best known.
One of the first jobs I had to do after the takeover was take Persimmon Housetypes and brief an architect on Charles Churchifying them. Ie giving them a slightly better suit of clothes and a nicer front door. Now they are just badge engineered Persimmon volume houses, but generally offer a higher spec than standard Persimmon and have more spent on kerb appeal.
Its not as though the Charles Church model was losing money either (well some regions were), my region was in profit every year. Our average house was 1800sqft and our largest new build was 4200sqft. Our apartments ranged from 500sqft 1 beds to 1800 sqft 3 beds.
I am still proud of the Charles Church sites we did and still go out of my way to look at them if I am in the area. Although I wasn't in sales, I showed David Ginola around a house is Little Aston Park (£1.2m about 13 years ago).
CC was a great Company, yes it had some difficulties after Charles died (in a Spitfire plane crash!), it was effectively saved by Beazer but they messed up a deal with Bryant Homes to merge and left themselves exposed to Persimmon.
Persimmon are a very aggressive volume builder, that really know what they are doing with everything other than upper market housebuilding. They are superb and balancing risk and reward.
If I could raise the equity, I would set up a housebuilder in the Charles Church image, but modern land and material prices mean that the equity required is huge and there would be no advantage of the Brand. (We could always add something to the selling price because of the brand).
If anyone has a spare £20m knocking about and fancies a go at building an upmarket new home brand then pm me
Edited by blueg33 on Friday 22 August 09:26
As for the grp chimneys the OP mentions, they are common across new builds, as are grp porches and bay tops. People want zero maintenance so timber is out. Take a look at a grp chimney if it's got an aerial or dish strapped to it. They flex and out comes the mortar!
C Lee Farquar said:
I'm sure there is a market for decently built houses in the same way that there is a market for premium cars. However I can see it's more profitable in the short term to sell cheap houses at a premium
The vast majority of people have a limited budget when buying a house. The choice therefore comes down to whether they would rather have a well built semi or a cheaply built dettached house. Or a well built 3 bed over a cheap 4 bed.The market has spoken. Cheaply built houses are more popular.
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