Conservation area - replacement windows anyone?

Conservation area - replacement windows anyone?

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numtumfutunch

Original Poster:

4,704 posts

137 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Hi

I live in a conservation area and have article 4 specifically applied to our gaff

We have 4 sash windows in need of severe tlc and also have a non original wooden back door which is similarly down on it's luck and a major source of draughts. We have considered refurbing but reckon replacement is the way to go, some of the woodwork is awful and the door is just nasty

Due to the conservation issues it's been difficult getting anyone to even quote on account of the hassle associated with this, however a local guy has given us a figure of £7k and this seems to be his thing

If anyone would be kind enough to share their own experiences then I'd be very grateful

His figure is supplied, fitted painted and includes looking after all the conservation stuff and planning permission. Two sashes are a regular size however the other two are pretty big at 2m x1.2m. The back door is nothing special and includes a new frame

Cheers

Fotic

719 posts

128 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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Interesting. I'd have thought it would be more than that. Which area's the property in?

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Fotic said:
Interesting. I'd have thought it would be more than that. Which area's the property in?
yes

I might be tempted to rip their arm off at that.

I was looking at £6k per window on a house I was interested in a few months ago.

numtumfutunch

Original Poster:

4,704 posts

137 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Yorkshire

Looks like he's about to get the job smile

Wings

5,810 posts

214 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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It was suggested to me by the local council's planning department, that i might withdraw my planning application. I became so frustrated at seeing other properties in the same conservation area, both new build and conversions, installing uPVC windows and doors etc., that i installed the same without planning permission.

zcacogp

11,239 posts

243 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
£7k for four sash windows (two pairs) and a back door?

Crumbs. Please can you PM me his details. That's a bargain.


Oli.

xstian

1,966 posts

145 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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I've been refurbing my sash windows. I did they my self in the end. I kind of wish I hadn't, they are very time consuming, but not that difficult. I was quoted £1000 to refurb each window or around £1500 to replace them for new. The guy said, the widows would have to be very bad for them not to be able to reburb them. Our sash windows are around 100 years old, I think I would have felt a bit guilty, if I just slung them in a skip and put new in. The window are all around 900x1700mm.

j80jpw

824 posts

161 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
7k is cheap, assuming he is just replacing the internal sash's and not the boxes too? What type of wood is he looking to use, hardwood or softwood? Ideally a hardwood is preferable to prevent any issues later on.

Another consideration may be thin double glazing, we make units that are just 10mm thick designed specifically to replace single glazing in traditional wooden sash windows, these are mostly going in to conservation or listed properties and becoming quite widely accepted. We supply Ventrolla in Harogate who refurb Sash windows. www.ventrolla.co.uk don't think they'll be 7k though!!

This is our product www.theoriginalglasscompany.co.uk





Russ_H

359 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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For comparison, we've pretty much replaced all the sash windows in out place with hardwood double glazed copies - we're in a conservation area.

Link showing the back of the house - porch, ground & 1st floor bay windows & 2nd floor

Small sash supply only - £1k
1st floor bay window supply & fit - £5k
2nd floor supply & fit - £2.3k

Our planning dept weren't really interested in the windows - our neighbours have just put a load of damn ugly UPVC replacements in.


CarbonV12V

1,154 posts

182 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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I used these:

http://www.mhjoineryservices.co.uk/

They replaced the sash windows in our 18th century farmhouse.

z4RRSchris99

11,221 posts

178 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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we just chucked in new ones, and PVC in the bits we wernt fussed about.

fk the council

SCH

23 posts

137 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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I live in a conservation area (Article 4). In my experience this does not affect anything at the rear of the house i.e. back door, unless it can be seen from a public area, so you may be free to do as you please with this – do check the specifics of your area with your council.

My house already had horrendous uPVC flip-top windows installed where wooden sash windows would have once been. These had to go!
I started getting quotes of up to £2500 per window to reinstate wooden sash windows (double glazed) – I needed 3 of them and £7500 was out of the question.

Whilst wood would have been more authentic, I found that Rehau Heritage sash windows are not a bad compromise (depending on the house) if you want uPVC.
See http://www.rehau.com/gb-en/pvcu-windows-doors--com...

I would have loved to have installed something that looks like Russ but just could not get these at an affordable price.
The Rehau Heritage profile of sash has been installed satisfactorily in conservation areas across the UK, and even in some listed buildings.
Whilst not to everyone’s taste – they are uPVC after all – after finally convincing the council to grant planning permission, this is what I had installed and at ~£1000 per window compared to £2500 for wood, I am very pleased.

If you want to stick with wooden windows then 7k sounds good, but if you think uPVC would be satisfactory then don’t rule out getting permission.

FlashmanChop

1,300 posts

205 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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We are currently on with a refurbishment of our new cottage within a conservation area (separate build thread to follow once works are advanced a little) Windows being one of the areas where we needed to think about – being a majority of sliding sash timber windows, and some more traditional windows on an old extension. We had someone in the family whom runs a specialist joinery company specialising in conservation type works. His advice was to spend the money refurbing what we had, as on the whole they were ok and not too far gone. Resin works and some more traditional splicing in of timbers will hopefully be starting in the coming weeks.

The general consensus from the local council was we could only change them with new that looed exactly the same, and double glazing was a no-no, or that it was ok, but with almost non-existent gaps between the panes – which would make them almost pointless from an energy efficiency point of view.

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Conservation area is a bit of a red herring . There are guidelines and suggestions, committees that have no enforcement powers but in terms of laws I don't think they have any special status.

Little Lofty

3,275 posts

150 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
I used to make box sash windows and I've no idea where these extortionate prices come from, I could make a complete window in less than a day, the materials cost buttons and fitting a complete window should take no more than a day.The company I used to work for has just fitted some for a friend of mine at just under a grand a window.
Conservation areas are a waste of time without an Article 4 attached as you change windows, doors etc without permission, with an article 4 its a different ball game. My friends house is in a conservation and has an article 4 attached, the council wouldn't entertain upvc sliding sash windows, they had to be timber, without the article 4 they would have had no say in the matter.

Edited by Little Lofty on Friday 29th August 17:02

j80jpw

824 posts

161 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
FlashmanChop said:
The general consensus from the local council was we could only change them with new that looed exactly the same, and double glazing was a no-no, or that it was ok, but with almost non-existent gaps between the panes – which would make them almost pointless from an energy efficiency point of view.
From an energy efficiency point of view a piece of single glazing has a U-Value of around 5.5-6.0, a thin DG unit with a 4mm cavity between the two panes filled with Krypton gas and a Low E softcoat inner pane has a U value of 1.9, quite a good improvement really as well as reducing condensation inside which is often the cause of rotting wooden windows.



Spudler

3,985 posts

195 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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z4RRSchris99 said:
we just chucked in new ones, and PVC in the bits we wernt fussed about.

fk the council
Don't need to fk the council.
For private dwellings in a conservation area you can install whatever you like, front, rear & sides.
And as for not being able to install standard DG units, nonsense.

HootersGsy

731 posts

135 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
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You say some of the woodwork is awful but is the wood actually rotten?

I've just bought a listed house an am slowly working my way round refurbish all of our windows, some look like they're ready for the skip but take the paint off, sand them back and you'll be amazed at how solid most of them still are.

A little bit of filler here and there, new putty and paint and they're looking good as new. I've also been installed draught proofing as I go and it makes a huge difference to each rooms heat retention.


Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
quotequote all
[quote=Spudler]

Don't need to fk the council.
For private dwellings in a conservation area you can install whatever you like, front, rear & sides.
And as for not being able to install standard DG units, nonsense.
[/quote

Agree.

People get all precious about living in a conservation area and think it means they're house is listed or some such.

It's just a local tag for Hyacinth Bucket types and doesn't place any legal restrictions over and above a non conservation area as far as I can see. ]

Little Lofty

3,275 posts

150 months

Saturday 30th August 2014
quotequote all
A conservation area means bugger all if the work you are doing comes under permitted development. If an article 4 is attached then permitted development rights are removed so planning permission is required for anything you change to the front of the property, from windows to drainpipes.It may depend on how strict your local planners are, mine are really hot on it and recently got a court order to remove a dormer window built in a conservation area (with article 4 attached) that didn't have permission, the home owner wouldn't remove it so the council instructed contractors to remove it and charged the guy, poor bugger died not long after.