Likelihood Of Enforcement Action ?
Discussion
Council Planning Officer is insisting that I step back my proposed extension by 450mm as per the Council's guideline to prevent a terracing effect etc
However my house cannot be seen from the road nor by the neighbours so there is no terracing effect and it affects no one. I'm tempted to get the consent for the extension but then build it level with the front wall.
Bearing in mind the below paragraphs - what is the chance of enforcement action for this type of breech ?
"National Planning Policy Framework 207. Effective enforcement is important as a means of maintaining public confidence in the planning system. Enforcement action is discretionary, and local planning authorities should act proportionately in responding to suspected breaches of planning control.
In deciding whether enforcement action is taken, local planning authorities should, where relevant, have regard to the potential impact on the health, housing needs and welfare of those affected by the proposed action, and those who are affected by a breach of planning control"
Bearing in mind that no one is affected, is it reasonable to expect that no enforcement would be taken ?
I could get this consent then re apply for the Original, then Appeal when it's refused but that would take around 8 months which I haven't got.
However my house cannot be seen from the road nor by the neighbours so there is no terracing effect and it affects no one. I'm tempted to get the consent for the extension but then build it level with the front wall.
Bearing in mind the below paragraphs - what is the chance of enforcement action for this type of breech ?
"National Planning Policy Framework 207. Effective enforcement is important as a means of maintaining public confidence in the planning system. Enforcement action is discretionary, and local planning authorities should act proportionately in responding to suspected breaches of planning control.
In deciding whether enforcement action is taken, local planning authorities should, where relevant, have regard to the potential impact on the health, housing needs and welfare of those affected by the proposed action, and those who are affected by a breach of planning control"
Bearing in mind that no one is affected, is it reasonable to expect that no enforcement would be taken ?
I could get this consent then re apply for the Original, then Appeal when it's refused but that would take around 8 months which I haven't got.
I know it's a risk but having seen locally a case where a bungalow was built, an Enforcement notice was sent, which was ignored, then no further action was taken, followed by the one on here with the house built under next door's soffit I have to question why should I play by the (stupid) rules.
Fittster said:
What would happen when you come to sell?
I think that if there has been no action you could insure against it but in four years it would become lawful.I'm intending to stay hence the determination not to build something that looks wrong and costs £5k more than to do it right.
V8RX7 said:
I know it's a risk but having seen locally a case where a bungalow was built, an Enforcement notice was sent, which was ignored, then no further action was taken, followed by the one on here with the house built under next door's soffit I have to question why should I play by the (stupid) rules.
If your name is Nazeem then crack on Sir, it won't be a problem.The Planning Officer is NOT the Planning Committee he just advises them and can just nod some stuff through.
Put your plans in ignoring his advice and add a politely worded letter explaining that his advice was appreciated and noted but that he is incorrect in his assertions regarding the terracing effect and point out the whys and wherefore's. There has been some relaxation in planning rules of late and if the committee see his assertions as an individual officer's whim (particularly if there are no specific guidelines on this subject) they will be minded just to pass it - if you can 'shoot him down' in as nice a manner as possible then it is more likely to go your way.
Just thinking a little more about this - if the reason the terracing affect cannot be seen is because of permanent topographical reasons all the better. if it just some trees or hedges that could well disappear in the future this may be more of a problem.
Put your plans in ignoring his advice and add a politely worded letter explaining that his advice was appreciated and noted but that he is incorrect in his assertions regarding the terracing effect and point out the whys and wherefore's. There has been some relaxation in planning rules of late and if the committee see his assertions as an individual officer's whim (particularly if there are no specific guidelines on this subject) they will be minded just to pass it - if you can 'shoot him down' in as nice a manner as possible then it is more likely to go your way.
Just thinking a little more about this - if the reason the terracing affect cannot be seen is because of permanent topographical reasons all the better. if it just some trees or hedges that could well disappear in the future this may be more of a problem.
Elanfan has a point there but bear in mind that most planning decisions are decided by delegated powers and don't get in front of a committee. You would need to get the application called in by a councillor to ensure it went to committee and make sure you get in touch with any members of the committee that you can find any excuse to talk to. If you just put a note in there it will very likely not get noticed and the case is presented to the committee by the officer so they will hear a summary biased towards their recommendation. Some committees now allow the applicant to speak as well.
You original idea of getting the permission their way and building it your way is simpler, very likely it would never even be noticed or reported as any different from the plans and even if it was it's very likely they would not take any action but it is a risk so you would have to decide if you are willing to take it.
You original idea of getting the permission their way and building it your way is simpler, very likely it would never even be noticed or reported as any different from the plans and even if it was it's very likely they would not take any action but it is a risk so you would have to decide if you are willing to take it.
Something to be careful about - if it can't be seen then that can extend the time for enforcement action. Have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9877770/Far...
Worth applying for consent for what you want anyway, rather than what the planning officer suggests, since if the terracing effect is not relevant then they can't exactly object on the grounds of terracing.
Worth applying for consent for what you want anyway, rather than what the planning officer suggests, since if the terracing effect is not relevant then they can't exactly object on the grounds of terracing.
Not building it to plans is likely to create all manners of problems, and expense. For a start if they find out you'll have to resubmit a planning application and pay more fees you'll need a set of incorrect plans for the planning application, and a set of correct ones for the builder, building control might well notice it being built incorrectly etc.
Better to make the application pointing out that terracing is irrelevant etc.
Better to make the application pointing out that terracing is irrelevant etc.
From what I understand this won't go to committee whether that's good or bad I'm unsure as they can make some unexpected decisions - I believe the Head of Planning and Head of Planning Committee look at the Officer's recommendation and can over rule them.
I wouldn't build without any consent and to get a refusal would put me back at least 8 weeks (I already have builders on site refurbing the house)
I've seen the "Castle" case and that was deliberately hidden, mine is just remote and obscured by mature trees although I admit waiting 4 yrs still isn't ideal.
I'll try Googling to see what they have enforced against locally.
I wouldn't build without any consent and to get a refusal would put me back at least 8 weeks (I already have builders on site refurbing the house)
I've seen the "Castle" case and that was deliberately hidden, mine is just remote and obscured by mature trees although I admit waiting 4 yrs still isn't ideal.
I'll try Googling to see what they have enforced against locally.
I would go back to the planners and explain your reasons for not wanting the setback.
Sometimes I see un experienced planners stick rigidly to the local design GUIDELINES , mistakenly thinking they are maintaining the street scene and acting in the best interest of the public, who of course pay their wages
If you reall do not have any adjacent properties and you are not building on the boundary I think you have a good case to argue.
Spend more time roving your point rather than worrying about defending enforcement action
Get pics of other very similar properties that have been extended in the same way.
Speak to them
What council is it ?
Sometimes I see un experienced planners stick rigidly to the local design GUIDELINES , mistakenly thinking they are maintaining the street scene and acting in the best interest of the public, who of course pay their wages
If you reall do not have any adjacent properties and you are not building on the boundary I think you have a good case to argue.
Spend more time roving your point rather than worrying about defending enforcement action
Get pics of other very similar properties that have been extended in the same way.
Speak to them
What council is it ?
My local councillor said she was available to make representations to the planning officer if I thought the planning department was being unreasonable.
I've never had to use that but it might be worth you asking them around. A cup of tea often helps too.
I have however spoken to a planning officer who has said the local councillor has got involved in an application and he was clearly watching out for his job !
I've never had to use that but it might be worth you asking them around. A cup of tea often helps too.
I have however spoken to a planning officer who has said the local councillor has got involved in an application and he was clearly watching out for his job !
It's the usual problem that you can only speak to the junior planners.
They use the guidelines as rules.
They also won't meet you in person because you use your brains and experience and talk common sense which confuses them.
I wrote a letter with my Application explaining that guidelines were for typical streets and my house is far from typical - yet she has come back that for here to support my application I have to set the extension back to meet the guidelines
My Architect suggested I offer to lower the roof line as a compromise but it looks ridiculous, the original design is a complete solution that makes absolute sense.
They use the guidelines as rules.
They also won't meet you in person because you use your brains and experience and talk common sense which confuses them.
I wrote a letter with my Application explaining that guidelines were for typical streets and my house is far from typical - yet she has come back that for here to support my application I have to set the extension back to meet the guidelines
My Architect suggested I offer to lower the roof line as a compromise but it looks ridiculous, the original design is a complete solution that makes absolute sense.
Chrisgr31 said:
Not building it to plans is likely to create all manners of problems, and expense. For a start if they find out you'll have to resubmit a planning application and pay more fees
Only if you actually believe that they will take enforcement action otherwise; planners love it when you make applications, it means they can meet their targets. They will always "insist" on another application and won't tend to mention that they will be doing nothing about it if you don't comply.V8RX7 said:
From what I understand this won't go to committee whether that's good or bad I'm unsure as they can make some unexpected decisions - I believe the Head of Planning and Head of Planning Committee look at the Officer's recommendation and can over rule them.
If your alternatives are them rejecting it or it going to committee, you'd be better off with it at committee and you can make this happen, any application can be called in to committee by any councillor within the first four weeks (IIRC) of the process. The Head of Planning will not overrule his officers unless he is under particular pressure to do so, in most cases he will not even see the application, the councillor who chairs the committee will definitely not see it unless it is called in.Planning is an administrative process and sometimes a political process, it has nothing to do with common sense, reasonable proposals or attractive buildings - make sure you understand the rules of the game before you play if you want to win.
V8RX7 said:
I know it's a risk but having seen locally a case where a bungalow was built, an Enforcement notice was sent, which was ignored, then no further action was taken, followed by the one on here with the house built under next door's soffit I have to question why should I play by the (stupid) rules.
I suspect in both cases, selling at a decent price, will not be easy.As a rule of thumb. If the officer has recommended refusal the Committee will tend to go with the officers recommendation.
We even get that when we are building much needed health care buildings.
Over many years and many many applications, I can only think of one case where the officer has recommended approval and the Committee have approved. Normally its a refusal or at best a deferment
We even get that when we are building much needed health care buildings.
Over many years and many many applications, I can only think of one case where the officer has recommended approval and the Committee have approved. Normally its a refusal or at best a deferment
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