Glazing - triple glazing worth doing?
Discussion
We have double glazing which is on its way out (panels with moisture on the inside and one not shutting properly) so we're planing to replace it.
As with everything, I am thinking of upgrading. Triple glazing sounds like the right choice (we are on a semi busy road and some of the neighbours like to have parties too), but thoughts/advice appreciated on:
Double or triple glazing? Why?
What spec to go for?
Any recommended suppliers/fitters?
Equally, while we are at it, we may as well look to do the front door and the patio doors (maybe swapping to bi-fold doors). If it's worth looking at a specialist, any suggestions would be appreciated.
As with everything, I am thinking of upgrading. Triple glazing sounds like the right choice (we are on a semi busy road and some of the neighbours like to have parties too), but thoughts/advice appreciated on:
Double or triple glazing? Why?
What spec to go for?
Any recommended suppliers/fitters?
Equally, while we are at it, we may as well look to do the front door and the patio doors (maybe swapping to bi-fold doors). If it's worth looking at a specialist, any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'm looking at this currently - for noise and the like, there's not a massive difference between double and triple (both do a pretty good job). However one of the things maybe worth considering is the window inserts if noise is a problem - they also act as 'triple' glazing but they in conjucntion with double glazing have big impact on noise. Just a thought anyway.
A good quality double glazed unit of equal thickness to triple glazing can perform equally as well. There are a few considerations with triple particularly if you are looking at putting triple in to your current frames?
Triple is obviously heavier, the current hinges will not have been designed to take the extra weight and this will cause problems with opening and shutting as well as early failure of the hinges. Newly manufactured windows to suit triple will be more expensive as the whole system needs to be beefed up.
The thickness of a triple unit is unlikely to fit in to the current frames, a skinny triple unit can be made but it wont perform particularly well as the cavities will be too small, a double glazed unit with thicker cavity filled with Argon or Krypton gas will perform just as well.
The key to effective acoustic units is having as many different thicknesses of glass as possible, each glass thickness will effect/cancel out different sound waves, obviously with triple it is easier to achieve this but a good double glazed unit with a 6.8mm laminate outer pane combined with a 4mm Softcoat inner will be pretty effective. If there are certain sound waves that need to be cancelled out this can also be addressed, there are lots of glass types/laminates available to address noise.
Triple is obviously heavier, the current hinges will not have been designed to take the extra weight and this will cause problems with opening and shutting as well as early failure of the hinges. Newly manufactured windows to suit triple will be more expensive as the whole system needs to be beefed up.
The thickness of a triple unit is unlikely to fit in to the current frames, a skinny triple unit can be made but it wont perform particularly well as the cavities will be too small, a double glazed unit with thicker cavity filled with Argon or Krypton gas will perform just as well.
The key to effective acoustic units is having as many different thicknesses of glass as possible, each glass thickness will effect/cancel out different sound waves, obviously with triple it is easier to achieve this but a good double glazed unit with a 6.8mm laminate outer pane combined with a 4mm Softcoat inner will be pretty effective. If there are certain sound waves that need to be cancelled out this can also be addressed, there are lots of glass types/laminates available to address noise.
I've fitted a number of triple glazed windows into my house, in two stages. The first stage, I used a local supplier who sent 28mm triple glazed units. This was as has been stated above, no real advantage over a good double glazed unit. The U values (for insulation) are very similar for good double and cheap triples.
Then after this first unit, I wanted to find a better quality unit, so looked around and found a supplier for a better quality frame. This type of frame had 5 compartments inside instead of just a single UPVC extrusion. The end result is strength and better U values. The frame could also hold a 44mm glazing unit and this was much better at insulating. Typical U values were 0.7 instead of the 1.2 for the cheap triple/best double. Overall the cost was probably a couple hundred more for 5 windows than it was for a locally supplied poorer quality unit.
You have to think though, are you making the windows massively better than the house. How good is your insulation, and is it worth the effort + cost to get better quality windows. Maybe your effort and money could be better spent elsewhere?
Then after this first unit, I wanted to find a better quality unit, so looked around and found a supplier for a better quality frame. This type of frame had 5 compartments inside instead of just a single UPVC extrusion. The end result is strength and better U values. The frame could also hold a 44mm glazing unit and this was much better at insulating. Typical U values were 0.7 instead of the 1.2 for the cheap triple/best double. Overall the cost was probably a couple hundred more for 5 windows than it was for a locally supplied poorer quality unit.
You have to think though, are you making the windows massively better than the house. How good is your insulation, and is it worth the effort + cost to get better quality windows. Maybe your effort and money could be better spent elsewhere?
eniacs said:
I wanted to find a better quality unit, so looked around and found a supplier for a better quality frame. This type of frame had 5 compartments inside instead of just a single UPVC extrusion. The end result is strength and better U values. The frame could also hold a 44mm glazing unit and this was much better at insulating.
What frames were these exactly?Edited by TheInternet on Tuesday 16th September 11:30
Tahiti said:
Interesting.
I hadn't even considered keeping the existing frames to be honest. Worth a bit of thinking through.
My parents recently replaced the glass units in some of their windows.I hadn't even considered keeping the existing frames to be honest. Worth a bit of thinking through.
Replacing the glass unit and keeping the existing frame instead was substantially cheaper than all new frames and windows (20% of the all new cost quoted).
Installation was very quick and the new units are much more efficient than the old ones.
My parents frames were installed in the late 80s (so 25 years old) and were fine.
I put these in my place to replace some crappy cheap double glazing. Amazing quality and brilliant noise reduction, I thought I had gone deaf. http://www.vrogum.dk/page1231.aspx
Tuffer; nice looking windows!
I used these upvc window frame combination;
http://www.diypvcwindows.co.uk/triple%20glazed.htm...
Which statistic u value are you referring to with the double glazing being 1.0 u value? Is it overall window or centre pane?
I used these upvc window frame combination;
http://www.diypvcwindows.co.uk/triple%20glazed.htm...
Which statistic u value are you referring to with the double glazing being 1.0 u value? Is it overall window or centre pane?
eniacs said:
Tuffer; nice looking windows!
I used these upvc window frame combination;
http://www.diypvcwindows.co.uk/triple%20glazed.htm...
Which statistic u value are you referring to with the double glazing being 1.0 u value? Is it overall window or centre pane?
I'm talking 1.0 centre pane.I used these upvc window frame combination;
http://www.diypvcwindows.co.uk/triple%20glazed.htm...
Which statistic u value are you referring to with the double glazing being 1.0 u value? Is it overall window or centre pane?
You'll struggle to get 0.7 overall window u-value unless its a passive window.
The best triple glazed units are about 0.5 centre pane as far as I know.
The link you have posted above give their triple glazed units at 0.8 u-value centre pane.
Edited by Rosscow on Tuesday 16th September 12:57
Rosscoi think the best window I had was 0.79 and the worst 0.86 overall window u value. They sent through the calculations on the quote.
I saw the passive windows but wasn't able to find a supplier that didn't want a 2nd mortgage to buy them!
Noise wise ordinary triple glazing is not massively better. Only a few db which is too little for us to notice. But you can specify special extra thick glazing units with a very thick outer pane to significantly reduce the noise. These will probably be quite expensive, unless you ordered them individually, as most standard suppliers just wouldn't bother.
I saw the passive windows but wasn't able to find a supplier that didn't want a 2nd mortgage to buy them!
Noise wise ordinary triple glazing is not massively better. Only a few db which is too little for us to notice. But you can specify special extra thick glazing units with a very thick outer pane to significantly reduce the noise. These will probably be quite expensive, unless you ordered them individually, as most standard suppliers just wouldn't bother.
Regarding acoustics it is the glass types used in either a triple or double glazed unit that makes the difference. A low end triple unit may just use 3 panes of 4mm glass. Believe it or not using three panes the same thickness wont make much difference in overall acoustic value to using just a single pane of the same thickness. Particular sound waves travel through certain thickness of glass and will do so multiple times, there have been cases where the unit has made noise worse due to them resonating/amplifying certain noises that they were intended to stop.
The best approach is to have as many glass thicknesses and laminates as possible, triple give more of an opportunity to do this but a well specified double glazed unit will do a good job. The most basic form of acoustic double glazed unit is a 6.8mm sound control laminate outer mixed with a 4mm inner. The 6.8mm laminate glass is manufactured using two pieces of 3mm glass sandwiching a 0.8mm acoustic PVB laminate so with the above spec unit in mind you get 3mm glass x2 a 0.8mm laminate and 4mm glass, the combination of these will cut out a lot of noise/different sound waves that travel through a standard unit typically specified by most building co.s
Units needing to cut out lots of noise such as air traffic are quite impressive, 12.8 laminate 8mm inner pane or similar very heavy and quite pricey too! The glass will nearly always out perform other elements of the building.
The best approach is to have as many glass thicknesses and laminates as possible, triple give more of an opportunity to do this but a well specified double glazed unit will do a good job. The most basic form of acoustic double glazed unit is a 6.8mm sound control laminate outer mixed with a 4mm inner. The 6.8mm laminate glass is manufactured using two pieces of 3mm glass sandwiching a 0.8mm acoustic PVB laminate so with the above spec unit in mind you get 3mm glass x2 a 0.8mm laminate and 4mm glass, the combination of these will cut out a lot of noise/different sound waves that travel through a standard unit typically specified by most building co.s
Units needing to cut out lots of noise such as air traffic are quite impressive, 12.8 laminate 8mm inner pane or similar very heavy and quite pricey too! The glass will nearly always out perform other elements of the building.
One down side to triple glazing is whilst it has generally lower u values they also have lost g values which mean less solar heat is transmitted through the glass. Although the effect is small it means your heating system talks just a little bit more energy to heat the house. Unless you really need the noise insulation I would just go with quality double glazing
944fan said:
One down side to triple glazing is whilst it has generally lower u values they also have lost g values which mean less solar heat is transmitted through the glass. Although the effect is small it means your heating system talks just a little bit more energy to heat the house. Unless you really need the noise insulation I would just go with quality double glazing
Surely that would even itself out in that they also keep more heat in?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff