Permitted Development loophole?
Discussion
Hi guys - one of my neighbours is building a dormer extension and as this is covered under permitted development we were not notified of any works. No problem I thought whilst it was all covered up with tarpulin but once that was pulled off we saw they had put a window in the end of the dormer which looks directly into one of our bedrooms and provides views into our bathroom and other bedroom.
So I popped around to talk to them as thought that best thing to do but response was sorry but we want as much light as possible and we will be fitting clear glass - not opaque even.
So I spoke to the council planning department as from all guidelines I had read, regardless if the window is allowed I had read that any overlooking windows need to be opaque glass, so the planning officer went and took a look and said there is no violation of permitted development rules - it appears, according to the planning enforcement officer that overlooking windows in the side of the dormer have to be by law opaque but as the guidance does not mention windows in the end of the dormer, there are no rules about opaque vs clear glass - which seems incredible and he admitted it is pretty much a loophole as they can only enforce what is written down regarding permitted development rules - not what is not written down.
We do have trees that cover most houses in our cul de sac overlooking each other and that seems to work for us and other neighbors - these trees were in place when we moved in 7 years ago and we of course are on an estate so there is a limit to how much you can complain about being overlooked.
Anyone got any pistonheads experience of this sort of thing - any options etc? We could continue to grow the trees but that is another 3 foot in height at least and not ideal for all - they were cut this weekend but we have left the tops for now.
thoughts?
picture taken from the bedroom:
cheers
So I popped around to talk to them as thought that best thing to do but response was sorry but we want as much light as possible and we will be fitting clear glass - not opaque even.
So I spoke to the council planning department as from all guidelines I had read, regardless if the window is allowed I had read that any overlooking windows need to be opaque glass, so the planning officer went and took a look and said there is no violation of permitted development rules - it appears, according to the planning enforcement officer that overlooking windows in the side of the dormer have to be by law opaque but as the guidance does not mention windows in the end of the dormer, there are no rules about opaque vs clear glass - which seems incredible and he admitted it is pretty much a loophole as they can only enforce what is written down regarding permitted development rules - not what is not written down.
We do have trees that cover most houses in our cul de sac overlooking each other and that seems to work for us and other neighbors - these trees were in place when we moved in 7 years ago and we of course are on an estate so there is a limit to how much you can complain about being overlooked.
Anyone got any pistonheads experience of this sort of thing - any options etc? We could continue to grow the trees but that is another 3 foot in height at least and not ideal for all - they were cut this weekend but we have left the tops for now.
thoughts?
picture taken from the bedroom:
cheers
Hi- the actual dormer extension you see is on their roofs side elevation - and the small window you see is on the back part of that dormer (their is one on the front also). On the side of the dormer that you cannot see, they have windows facing the roof of the house on the left as you look at the photo (these need to be opaque as they overlook) and on the right, windows in the actual roof.
Our houses are not orientated the same way - if you imagine a T shape, their house is the length of the T and my house is the longways top part of the T - the houses are not identical either and our gardens back onto each other.
Hopefully that helps make some sense of the orientation - growing the trees seems to be the only way to stop the direct view into my rooms I guess.
Our houses are not orientated the same way - if you imagine a T shape, their house is the length of the T and my house is the longways top part of the T - the houses are not identical either and our gardens back onto each other.
Hopefully that helps make some sense of the orientation - growing the trees seems to be the only way to stop the direct view into my rooms I guess.
Not ideal but how about a semi-opaque window covering either alternate lines of window film and no film across the window or a large part of window film in the middle of the window with a gap around (if that makes sense). This should allow them the light they want, and you the privacy you need.
I'd propose this as a compromise - or tell them you'll block their light and view not just to this window but the rest of their house.
You can actually get some pretty good film that obscures vision but let's a lot of light through.
I'd propose this as a compromise - or tell them you'll block their light and view not just to this window but the rest of their house.
You can actually get some pretty good film that obscures vision but let's a lot of light through.
Seems strange they want clear glass as there is no real view, obscure glass transmits almost as much light, if they had wanted maximum light they should have fitted a dome or Velux on the flat roof, as already suggested ask them to fit obscure glass or you will let the tress grow beyond control and they will eventually get much less light than obscure glass will give them, they will end up with no view and no light.
Permitted development rights are an intresting area.
But usually you still have to comply with other guidance.
Looking at the the picture its very hard to see, but planners usually like any dormer to be set back 1m from the end of a roof.
I would have expected that the dormer even if it complies with premitted development, doesnt automatically mean that they are allowed to put clear glazed windows from habitable rooms, overlooking your house.
what distance is the window from your habitable room windows? and are they face on or at right angles?
But usually you still have to comply with other guidance.
Looking at the the picture its very hard to see, but planners usually like any dormer to be set back 1m from the end of a roof.
I would have expected that the dormer even if it complies with premitted development, doesnt automatically mean that they are allowed to put clear glazed windows from habitable rooms, overlooking your house.
what distance is the window from your habitable room windows? and are they face on or at right angles?
Bradders901 said:
Hi- the actual dormer extension you see is on their roofs side elevation - and the small window you see is on the back part of that dormer (their is one on the front also).
Then the officer is correct With permitted development they do not have to comply with any guidance or local policies , it is purely what it says on the tin , Permitted Development.
I wouldn't threaten growing the trees otherwise it could go against you and you may see them succeed with a case against unreasonable high boundary trees. jut let them grow and wait for him to come cap in hand to you.
Depending on how old the property is , it may be worth going to the council offices having a look at his original planning approval for the main house ,as it isn't un common for the planner to slip in a clause restricting additional openings at first floor .
"Windows for a loft extension on a side elevation of a house must be obscure glazed to benefit from permitted development."
Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
Mr GrimNasty said:
"Windows for a loft extension on a side elevation of a house must be obscure glazed to benefit from permitted development."
Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
But his window in question is on the rear elevation Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
Busa mav said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
"Windows for a loft extension on a side elevation of a house must be obscure glazed to benefit from permitted development."
Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
But his window in question is on the rear elevation Page 35
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PD...
Edit, in fact reading again, It still sounds like he said it was on their side....
Anyway, that's the rules if it applies or doesn't.
Edited by Mr GrimNasty on Saturday 20th September 18:01
1. It looks absolutely st, the whole thing is awful proportions and the cladding is hideous. Why do people ant their houses to look st?
2. What is the obsession with 'light' how much extra will they get through that awfully proportioned window? What is wrong with electric lighting.
Your neighbours are selfish pricks for beginning works without mentioning it, and then to just tell you they are having clear glass and no compromise.
Get some curtains with a great big cock on the side that faces out.
2. What is the obsession with 'light' how much extra will they get through that awfully proportioned window? What is wrong with electric lighting.
Your neighbours are selfish pricks for beginning works without mentioning it, and then to just tell you they are having clear glass and no compromise.
Get some curtains with a great big cock on the side that faces out.
s3fella said:
1. It looks absolutely st, the whole thing is awful proportions and the cladding is hideous. Why do people ant their houses to look st?
2. What is the obsession with 'light' how much extra will they get through that awfully proportioned window? What is wrong with electric lighting.
Your neighbours are selfish pricks for beginning works without mentioning it, and then to just tell you they are having clear glass and no compromise.
Get some curtains with a great big cock on the side that faces out.
+1 . Bungalows with hideous loft conversions, why buy a bungalow if you want an upstairs. They always look st!2. What is the obsession with 'light' how much extra will they get through that awfully proportioned window? What is wrong with electric lighting.
Your neighbours are selfish pricks for beginning works without mentioning it, and then to just tell you they are having clear glass and no compromise.
Get some curtains with a great big cock on the side that faces out.
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