Legionella risk assessment
Discussion
OH is getting increasingly apocalyptic mails from letting agents that it is now a legal requirement to have property checked for Legionella.
Comfortingly, they all seem able to do this for anything between 120-170 quid plus VAT.
A little googling, and much downloading of the current guidelines/audit docs/code of practice from the HSE site suggests that it is something one is more than able to do oneself, given modern water systems, and what is required is a risk assessment, and notification to tenants of the need to keep shower heads clean, keep water temp at 60 or above, and a warning that if done, that tends to make the hot water, well, a bit hot.
The costs of getting people in, over a number of properties, seem a touch toppy given that.
Anyone done this themselves?
Comfortingly, they all seem able to do this for anything between 120-170 quid plus VAT.
A little googling, and much downloading of the current guidelines/audit docs/code of practice from the HSE site suggests that it is something one is more than able to do oneself, given modern water systems, and what is required is a risk assessment, and notification to tenants of the need to keep shower heads clean, keep water temp at 60 or above, and a warning that if done, that tends to make the hot water, well, a bit hot.
The costs of getting people in, over a number of properties, seem a touch toppy given that.
Anyone done this themselves?
I've looked into this subject - and I can find no evidence that anyone has ever caught legionnaires disease from a domestic hot water cylinder.
Quite a number of houses will show legionnaires in the shower head, simply because they never have really hot water going through them - but inhaling enough of the stuff is very difficult - and you have to be susceptible to it (very young or very old).
Copper cylinders are reckoned to kill the spores - also heat above 50c.
The problem can lie in circulating systems - these are best dealt with by either UV lights or copper/silver ionisation. Using high temperatures is a waste of energy - and then there is the risk of scalds (which leads onto installing tempering valves - which need maintenance etc etc).
Paying for a legionnaires test is like trying to prove a negative - whatever will government think of next.
Quite a number of houses will show legionnaires in the shower head, simply because they never have really hot water going through them - but inhaling enough of the stuff is very difficult - and you have to be susceptible to it (very young or very old).
Copper cylinders are reckoned to kill the spores - also heat above 50c.
The problem can lie in circulating systems - these are best dealt with by either UV lights or copper/silver ionisation. Using high temperatures is a waste of energy - and then there is the risk of scalds (which leads onto installing tempering valves - which need maintenance etc etc).
Paying for a legionnaires test is like trying to prove a negative - whatever will government think of next.
57 deg c is the temp to keep the water at, below this legionnaires can breed/survive. it can also live in dead ends in pipe work and rubber hoses the connect to taps etc, in hospitals they chlorinate the shower heads every two weeks and flush all the pipe work with chlorine yearly (i think).
From what I can find on the interweb, I am allowed to do my own risk assessment, baring in mind the equipment and facilities in the house. One electric shower, supplied by mains cold water. And one gas powered combiboiler that heats hot water tank to over 60 degrees twice a day. Only one bathroom, and no shower from the combiboiler heated water supply, just hot water taps in kitchen and bathroom.
Tada, risk assessment done, job finished.
Tada, risk assessment done, job finished.
I found this page, and some other links. http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/what-you-must-d...
Then sent this to our agent:
"From what I can find on the interweb, I am allowed to do my own risk assessment, bearing in mind the equipment and facilities in the house. One electric shower, supplied by mains cold water. And one gas powered boiler that heats hot water tank to over 60 degrees twice a day. Only one bathroom, and no shower from the boiler heated water supply, just hot water taps in kitchen and bathroom"
Then sent this to our agent:
"From what I can find on the interweb, I am allowed to do my own risk assessment, bearing in mind the equipment and facilities in the house. One electric shower, supplied by mains cold water. And one gas powered boiler that heats hot water tank to over 60 degrees twice a day. Only one bathroom, and no shower from the boiler heated water supply, just hot water taps in kitchen and bathroom"
The dept. of finding things to worry about discovered Legionella in the galley tap onboard a ship I was on a couple of years ago; everyone in the office got excited and filled our email inbox with spam, onboard we settled for removing the swivelly spout(which was the likely home of the bacteria) and dunking it in bleach along with the shower heads once a month. Job jobbed and nil returns on the retest.
dazwalsh said:
Biggest load of b
ks I've come across yet as a landlord.
Agreed. I worked for many years managing large buildings and this was a big issue for us. The risk in homes is minimal.ks I've come across yet as a landlord.Ask your EA for the legislation that covers this "requirement".
I'm a landlord, and my agent hasn't asked me to do these yet. If/when they do, they will get a short answer.
King Herald said:
I found this page, and some other links. http://www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/what-you-must-d...
Then sent this to our agent:
"From what I can find on the interweb, I am allowed to do my own risk assessment, bearing in mind the equipment and facilities in the house. One electric shower, supplied by mains cold water. And one gas powered boiler that heats hot water tank to over 60 degrees twice a day. Only one bathroom, and no shower from the boiler heated water supply, just hot water taps in kitchen and bathroom"
That link is regarding the Health and Safety at Work act....note "Work". Landlords refers to comercial building owners, not private homes. Then sent this to our agent:
"From what I can find on the interweb, I am allowed to do my own risk assessment, bearing in mind the equipment and facilities in the house. One electric shower, supplied by mains cold water. And one gas powered boiler that heats hot water tank to over 60 degrees twice a day. Only one bathroom, and no shower from the boiler heated water supply, just hot water taps in kitchen and bathroom"
Domestic systems are too small to pose any real risk.
If agents start forcing this on domestic landlords then I'm going into business. I could do 100's per day from my armchair
MatrixXXx said:
57 deg c is the temp to keep the water at, below this legionnaires can breed/survive. it can also live in dead ends in pipe work and rubber hoses the connect to taps etc, in hospitals they chlorinate the shower heads every two weeks and flush all the pipe work with chlorine yearly (i think).
Most large buildings will to regular checks, and will chlorinate yearly. The difference is long pipe runs, dead ends, circulating systems. Domestic systems are just to small to pose any real risk.I've been involved in a post infection investigation, and the person home system was not even considered by the HSE.
I only get involved with commercial systems so if/when the requirements will apply to domestic rented property I don't know but a bit of background for you
The Risk Assessment is just that, it reviews the system and establishes any risk and defines control measures for them. If the risks are very low you may not need any control measures at all
In the commercial world you shouldn't do this yourself unless you can prove you are competent to do so. Sampling for analysis isn't necessarily part of the risk assessment process, if the control measures are correct there often isn't a need to sample at any point.
Control should be by temperature and volume flow first, often there will be no need to carry out any routine chlorinations
Simple systems can present a risk, I had experience of a system recently that was no more complex than a domestic system (but was bigger) that returned a positive sample.
The Risk Assessment is just that, it reviews the system and establishes any risk and defines control measures for them. If the risks are very low you may not need any control measures at all
In the commercial world you shouldn't do this yourself unless you can prove you are competent to do so. Sampling for analysis isn't necessarily part of the risk assessment process, if the control measures are correct there often isn't a need to sample at any point.
Control should be by temperature and volume flow first, often there will be no need to carry out any routine chlorinations
Simple systems can present a risk, I had experience of a system recently that was no more complex than a domestic system (but was bigger) that returned a positive sample.
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