Floor joists - extending them
Discussion
Skodasupercar said:
if ... I would be asking for new full length joists to be fitted.
This was suggested last month. Regardless of the technical aspects, in these situations I feel it is important that one can feel comfortable in ones own home and where possible use the solution which eliminates doubt.
http://1drv.ms/1Hr8Xbb
First two pics show the short joists I was on about
Third pic shows longer joists by builder 2. a 3rd bolt has been added in the middle due to building inspector asking for it
That also shows the curviature of the joists
Photo 3 is room above with dodgy floor
We put a spirit level to the curved joists and they are not level.
First two pics show the short joists I was on about
Third pic shows longer joists by builder 2. a 3rd bolt has been added in the middle due to building inspector asking for it
That also shows the curviature of the joists
Photo 3 is room above with dodgy floor
We put a spirit level to the curved joists and they are not level.
The long scabbed on joists look ok, but the short ones are a little short, but not horrible.
Was the floor level when the builder first fitted them? It may be that when the builder added them, he didn't prop the ends of the joists up enough?
It may be possible to get in some props, jack the floor back up level and add a few more bolts or coach screws in a staggered patten to beef it up a bit.
Have the ceilings been fitted below yet?
edit to add - looking again at the photos, you can see the bottom of the new joists sticking below the the origional joists. Might be sag, may not have been fitted level in the first place.
Either way, I would want something done about it. It may be possible to remove the short sections of joist and re-fit longer ones and re-fix and re-level the floor.
Was the floor level when the builder first fitted them? It may be that when the builder added them, he didn't prop the ends of the joists up enough?
It may be possible to get in some props, jack the floor back up level and add a few more bolts or coach screws in a staggered patten to beef it up a bit.
Have the ceilings been fitted below yet?
edit to add - looking again at the photos, you can see the bottom of the new joists sticking below the the origional joists. Might be sag, may not have been fitted level in the first place.
Either way, I would want something done about it. It may be possible to remove the short sections of joist and re-fit longer ones and re-fix and re-level the floor.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th November 21:21
It is still like that.
As per my OP I have had 2 buidlers. In the interim between them I suspect the floor has sagged (no acro props and the floor wasn't extended properly) and the 2nd builders haven't checked it before putting blocks up.
I think the new wood is roughly level with the old wood - problem is both together are slightly too low in some places.
I am not sure if I even want more tampering and more bolts going in - its starting to get silly with so many holes as further on up I have holes for electrical wires and notched joists for pipework!
As per my OP I have had 2 buidlers. In the interim between them I suspect the floor has sagged (no acro props and the floor wasn't extended properly) and the 2nd builders haven't checked it before putting blocks up.
I think the new wood is roughly level with the old wood - problem is both together are slightly too low in some places.
I am not sure if I even want more tampering and more bolts going in - its starting to get silly with so many holes as further on up I have holes for electrical wires and notched joists for pipework!
All our upstairs walls are made of clinker blocks - which are sat on the floorboards
Plus of course they are packed with furniture and we often have a lot of people in.
I probably woudl have lived with them had the floor been flat but I am now somewhat psised off as they have been as issue for a while.
Plus of course they are packed with furniture and we often have a lot of people in.
I probably woudl have lived with them had the floor been flat but I am now somewhat psised off as they have been as issue for a while.
H'mmm ... I've been watching this thread ... in my view (not unbiased), the best thing to do is employ an expert to give an expert opinion ... that expert should be a chartered structural engineer with professional indemnity insurance ... you should then bite the bullet and do what he recommends
Yea
I rang a Structural engineer earlier - they said I needed a Building surveyor. Will get in touch with one soon. I am waiting to hear fro mthe buidlers what their view is one it.
I seem to have 2 options - jack up the existing joists and make the floor flat or just change them completley which resolves both problems - although as far as the buidlers are concerned the short joist bit isn't a problem.
I rang a Structural engineer earlier - they said I needed a Building surveyor. Will get in touch with one soon. I am waiting to hear fro mthe buidlers what their view is one it.
I seem to have 2 options - jack up the existing joists and make the floor flat or just change them completley which resolves both problems - although as far as the buidlers are concerned the short joist bit isn't a problem.
Picture 3 is the key one.
Where the orange wall is there is a joist above that which has obviously always stayed still as it is fixed.
Where the white door is - above that is a clinker block wall - which has probably pushed down the joist.
If you go to the left of the orange wall I think they are also slightly lwoer on that side as well but will need to check again.
In picture 4 where you see the 'hill' that is where the orange wall is underneath I think.
Where the orange wall is there is a joist above that which has obviously always stayed still as it is fixed.
Where the white door is - above that is a clinker block wall - which has probably pushed down the joist.
If you go to the left of the orange wall I think they are also slightly lwoer on that side as well but will need to check again.
In picture 4 where you see the 'hill' that is where the orange wall is underneath I think.
I don't think your should worry - I have a room in a large 3 story victorian townhouse where I had the ceiling replaced. It turned out the joists were all joined (none stretched the full width if the room) and looked horrendous! There was no uniformity, some were short, all very uneven etc. Yet its stood just fine for over a hundred years. I think it was the area of the house where all the offcuts etc were used!
Those pics look far better quality, and I think the 'short' lengths with 3 bolts will be fine. I suspect that there is no strength advantage to be gained by extending the length of the overlap and adding more bolts. The leverage is going to be against the bolts, snd as we know steel is very, very strong!
Those pics look far better quality, and I think the 'short' lengths with 3 bolts will be fine. I suspect that there is no strength advantage to be gained by extending the length of the overlap and adding more bolts. The leverage is going to be against the bolts, snd as we know steel is very, very strong!
V8RX7 said:
Perhaps I'm missing something but the floor seems to dip to the far left joist (which looks unaltered)
The dip is not along the joists themselves but along the floorboards hence the one joist is lower (or the others raised)
I'm glad it's not just me. I can't see a 'hill' at all.The dip is not along the joists themselves but along the floorboards hence the one joist is lower (or the others raised)
Mojooo said:
Yea
I rang a Structural engineer earlier - they said I needed a Building surveyor. Will get in touch with one soon. ...........
A building surveyor will not be qualified to justify the capacity of the as built arrangement unless he also has PI insurance to deal with structural issues. A good building surveyor will recommend that you gain the opinion of a chartered structural engineer ... to rely on any other opinion is not a good idea !I rang a Structural engineer earlier - they said I needed a Building surveyor. Will get in touch with one soon. ...........
Try another structural engineer ... timber design is a bit of a black art at the best of times ... expert opinion and experience rule
Mojooo said:
I seem to have 2 options - jack up the existing joists and make the floor flat or just change them completley which resolves both problems - although as far as the buidlers are concerned the short joist bit isn't a problem.
You could jack up the joists at mid span but then what? When you release the jacks the floor will just spring back down?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff