Homebuyer survey - surveyor won't let me be present
Discussion
Hi All,
After a long search we've decided on a house and had our offer accepted. I've taken my lender up on upgrading their valuation to a homebuyers survey, but had asked the lender and estate agent to ensure I was invited to attend during the survey. My reasons for this were to be on hand to discuss any issues directly with the surveyor, with the benefit of being able to look and point at any offending features and ask questions there and then. Frankly I've also heard a few too many stories of 'drive-by' surveys and surveyors hiding behind "get this checked by a damp/rot/roof/window/etc expert" clauses rather than actually giving any useful info/opinions, so I thought attending myself might protect against this.
The lender was fine with this, the agent less so but willing, but the surveyor (presumably the cheapest bidder) is refusing, stating it's not their policy to do so as they need to 'get on' to the next job. I don't find that reasonable when I am the customer paying the bill, but perhaps they are just guarding against people getting in the way and asking daft questions.
What's your experience?
After a long search we've decided on a house and had our offer accepted. I've taken my lender up on upgrading their valuation to a homebuyers survey, but had asked the lender and estate agent to ensure I was invited to attend during the survey. My reasons for this were to be on hand to discuss any issues directly with the surveyor, with the benefit of being able to look and point at any offending features and ask questions there and then. Frankly I've also heard a few too many stories of 'drive-by' surveys and surveyors hiding behind "get this checked by a damp/rot/roof/window/etc expert" clauses rather than actually giving any useful info/opinions, so I thought attending myself might protect against this.
The lender was fine with this, the agent less so but willing, but the surveyor (presumably the cheapest bidder) is refusing, stating it's not their policy to do so as they need to 'get on' to the next job. I don't find that reasonable when I am the customer paying the bill, but perhaps they are just guarding against people getting in the way and asking daft questions.
What's your experience?
He's doing a fixed price job which does not allow time 'to discuss'.
If you want that facility, you'd be better off binning the option through the lender and employing a surveyor direct who will quote you a price for the inspection and report plus some direct time with you to discuss. No problem at all then and you'll get a much better take on what has been found. It'll cost more though but it's the only way to do it properly.
If you want that facility, you'd be better off binning the option through the lender and employing a surveyor direct who will quote you a price for the inspection and report plus some direct time with you to discuss. No problem at all then and you'll get a much better take on what has been found. It'll cost more though but it's the only way to do it properly.
You could always have your own survey done independently.
You are not the one instructing the valuation as things stand, the lender is and it will fall within a set procedure which you have no influence over.
If you instruct independently you can set your own procedure, the lender might even accept your surveyors report instead of their own, check first to be sure.
You are not the one instructing the valuation as things stand, the lender is and it will fall within a set procedure which you have no influence over.
If you instruct independently you can set your own procedure, the lender might even accept your surveyors report instead of their own, check first to be sure.
Renovation said:
LFB531 said:
you'd be better off binning the option through the lender and employing a surveyor direct who will quote you a price for the inspection and report plus some direct time with you to discuss
^ ThisIf he is that concerned he should let the valuer from the lender do the basic valuation and engage a separate surveyor himself. This can be on the basis of which one will let him attend. He'll be getting two surveyors to site that way of course but the opinion of his surveyor might be helpful if the lender's panel surveyor returns a controversial valuation.
As above use the base valuation option from the lender and instruct your own.
The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying) and works to a very fixed and meagre rate to do the job. The last thing he wants is a third party slowing him down and creating more work.
The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying) and works to a very fixed and meagre rate to do the job. The last thing he wants is a third party slowing him down and creating more work.
Grandad Gaz said:
No experience really on that, but I do find their arrogance astonishing.
There you are making the biggest expenditure of your life and they treat you like you were buying a packet of biscuits!
The problem being that, whilst most people are prepared to pay top dollar for the home, some people are only prepared to pay the price of some custard creams for the professional advice that will ensure that their investment is not an expensive mistake.There you are making the biggest expenditure of your life and they treat you like you were buying a packet of biscuits!
The surveyor is not being arrogant, he is merely being honest in describing what he can do for that price. If the OP wants to shadow him and ask him endless questions that may make the survey last twice the usual length, he will have to pay for the surveyor's additional time. That's not arrogance, that's being reasonable.
If you paid a garage for an engine change based on x hours labour, do you think they would let you watch over the mechanic and ask him questions about what this bit does and why he's doing it that way and what's the best tool to use etc, when that will make the labour charge twice x, without paying for it?
When I bought my house I got some recommendations for surveyors and said to the bank "I want to use XXX, is that ok with you?" to which I got a yes (luckily he was on their 'approved panel' already). I then instructed a much more detailed survey, popped round to the house near the end of his time there for him to quickly talk me through what he had found before sending me a 40+ page report.
Mind you, the survey was £1k vs. £300 for the valuation survey the bank wanted so I definitely tried to get my moneys worth!
Mind you, the survey was £1k vs. £300 for the valuation survey the bank wanted so I definitely tried to get my moneys worth!
Marlin45 said:
The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying)
Yes - that part baffled me. We even had to sign the surveyors terms of engagement, but when we had a problem they tried to refer us back to the lender. Our friendly family solicitor jumped up and down all over them and sorted it out but it would have been useful to know that most of the house had blown plaster before we moved in.These "in-between" surveys seem a complete waste of time. A competent DIYer / builder could do a more useful job.
Sheepshanks said:
Marlin45 said:
The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying)
Yes - that part baffled me. We even had to sign the surveyors terms of engagement, but when we had a problem they tried to refer us back to the lender. Our friendly family solicitor jumped up and down all over them and sorted it out but it would have been useful to know that most of the house had blown plaster before we moved in.These "in-between" surveys seem a complete waste of time. A competent DIYer / builder could do a more useful job.
Also lenders are not that concerned about relatively minor issues (Blown plaster could be minor - depends on the extent I suppose). What they want to know is how much is the house worth now and are there any material defects that are going to affect their security.
I bought my house from my girlfriends grandads estate when he went into a home
The bank wanted a survey as they do
I was the key holder to let the guy in, he didn't knowi was the buyer
I'd foolishly upgraded to the top survey
He didn't bring a ladder to get into the loft, he wasn't prepared to lift a carpet or do anything that involved touching stuff
Basically just minced about saying things that were so vague it was comical
The long and short of it was he was basically checking it didn't appear to be falling down
I knew about faults that he didn't even get near to discovering
The bank wanted a survey as they do
I was the key holder to let the guy in, he didn't knowi was the buyer
I'd foolishly upgraded to the top survey
He didn't bring a ladder to get into the loft, he wasn't prepared to lift a carpet or do anything that involved touching stuff
Basically just minced about saying things that were so vague it was comical
The long and short of it was he was basically checking it didn't appear to be falling down
I knew about faults that he didn't even get near to discovering
surveyor said:
Couple of points.... You would find that they are not being paid as much as you think. Lenders and Panel companies love to keep some (up to 1/2) of the fee themselves.
Yes - we actually did look at that as the Home Buyers survey as an uplift from the valuation survey was about the same cost as commissioning our own survey. But we expected we'd get the same quality either way.surveyor said:
Also lenders are not that concerned about relatively minor issues (Blown plaster could be minor - depends on the extent I suppose). What they want to know is how much is the house worth now and are there any material defects that are going to affect their security.
Sure on the valuation survey. But the HomeBuyers survey should have picked it up. The Surveyor's boss came to the house and it was obvious he thought they'd messed up. His company paid for the remedial work (although they moaned about the price of the work) and our solicitors costs.Standard operating procedure for a survey. Having the client around at the same time interrupting and asking questions is recipe for missing something. If you want to have a walk around with him, have this as a separate activity.
I would rather leave them to get on with it and get a proper survey done which their liability insurance will sign upto.
Personally I would use a different surveyor to the one used by the mortgage company as the intent of the surveys are significantly different and the mortgage valuation is designed to protect the mortgage company money, not you!
I had what used to be called 'a full structural survey' completed for £825, worth every penny and we had a good discussion after the survey to highlight the issues that had been identified.
I would rather leave them to get on with it and get a proper survey done which their liability insurance will sign upto.
Personally I would use a different surveyor to the one used by the mortgage company as the intent of the surveys are significantly different and the mortgage valuation is designed to protect the mortgage company money, not you!
I had what used to be called 'a full structural survey' completed for £825, worth every penny and we had a good discussion after the survey to highlight the issues that had been identified.
Having seen a "surveyor" at work when I bought my last house (valuation survey for a mortgage), I didn't want to bother when I bought my current house. No mortgage involved, as I'd saved enough to pay for the upgrade.
My solicitor advised against it, having seen the paperwork from the last time it changed hands. Lots of old mine workings in the area (West Cornwall), so I agreed to have a basic mining survey done, which included a site visit to check for potential subsidence. The guy played it safe, pointing out some minor external defects, but said it was basically OK, just settlement from when the house was built nearly 50 years ago. He was happy for me to be present, and talked about what he saw as we walked around. Because he only looked around outside, and checked the old maps, it wasn't that expensive.
My next door neighbour is trying to sell now, and has had a couple of offers fall through because of worries about underground workings. In the end, he had a full drilling survey done, which cost him well over a grand. Three bore holes pushed down through the front garden and under the house. As we suspected, the lodes that run under the development have never been worked. Pretty obvious really, as there are no ventilation shafts or engine houses within a mile. Again, the guys that did this work were happy to answer any questions.
I guess you get what you pay for, and, being in a relatively rural area, the surveyors aren't in a mad rush to get to the next job.
My solicitor advised against it, having seen the paperwork from the last time it changed hands. Lots of old mine workings in the area (West Cornwall), so I agreed to have a basic mining survey done, which included a site visit to check for potential subsidence. The guy played it safe, pointing out some minor external defects, but said it was basically OK, just settlement from when the house was built nearly 50 years ago. He was happy for me to be present, and talked about what he saw as we walked around. Because he only looked around outside, and checked the old maps, it wasn't that expensive.
My next door neighbour is trying to sell now, and has had a couple of offers fall through because of worries about underground workings. In the end, he had a full drilling survey done, which cost him well over a grand. Three bore holes pushed down through the front garden and under the house. As we suspected, the lodes that run under the development have never been worked. Pretty obvious really, as there are no ventilation shafts or engine houses within a mile. Again, the guys that did this work were happy to answer any questions.
I guess you get what you pay for, and, being in a relatively rural area, the surveyors aren't in a mad rush to get to the next job.
Marlin45 said:
As above use the base valuation option from the lender and instruct your own.
The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying) and works to a very fixed and meagre rate to do the job. The last thing he wants is a third party slowing him down and creating more work.
This.The lenders surveyor is working for them, not you (despite the fact you are paying) and works to a very fixed and meagre rate to do the job. The last thing he wants is a third party slowing him down and creating more work.
Our bank survey never even went in the property.
My surveyor (£700) saved me 5k in final negotiations. Serious stuff, asbestos, etc...
For the reasons already discussed, no surveyor would want you shadowing them during the inspection. Not only is this distracting and extremely time consuming, but it is often better to inspect the whole property prior to giving a balanced worthwhile professional opinion.
Following undertaking a private survey, I find that it is far better to deliver the report to the client and go through it explaining the points in detail therefore giving a far better picture of the property as a whole.
Following undertaking a private survey, I find that it is far better to deliver the report to the client and go through it explaining the points in detail therefore giving a far better picture of the property as a whole.
av185 said:
For the reasons already discussed, no surveyor would want you shadowing them during the inspection. Not only is this distracting and extremely time consuming, but it is often better to inspect the whole property prior to giving a balanced worthwhile professional opinion.
Following undertaking a private survey, I find that it is far better to deliver the report to the client and go through it explaining the points in detail therefore giving a far better picture of the property as a whole.
There is a middle ground. I agreed to meet the surveyor on site after his inspection for 20 minutes for him to show the key points only. He was happy, I was happy, it was in his fee, etc.Following undertaking a private survey, I find that it is far better to deliver the report to the client and go through it explaining the points in detail therefore giving a far better picture of the property as a whole.
It's an odd world, MOTs seem to take longer than a house survey that impacts a 20+ year mortgage; not directly analogous but it is a strange world.
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