Homebuyer survey - surveyor won't let me be present

[av185]

p1esk said:

NewNameNeeded said:

Chrisgr31 said:

Then of course he had to write up his report, and travel to and from the property. £650 might sound like a lot but there is every chance the surveyors employer didn't get it all anyway.

I hope you're not trying to justify that as being good value for money! I'm pretty sure the reports are 'fill in the blanks' type things!

That's how they have appeared to me on three or four Homebuyer surveys I have had done during the past 15 years or so. It appeared to be a standard document from their professional body, edited to suit, with large sections using identical wording. It certainly wasn't a comprehensive report produced from scratch.

Homebuyers reports are neither comprehensive documents nor are they surveys as such. That's why there is the more expensive building survey. You pays your money and takes your choice. When will people start reading the description of each type of report? As with most things they are invariably happy to save a few hundred quid in commisioning a totally inappropriate report for one of the most expensive purchases they will make. I invariably advise any client wanting a detailed report to opt for a building survey btw...

[p1esk]

av185 said:

p1esk said:

NewNameNeeded said:

Chrisgr31 said:

Then of course he had to write up his report, and travel to and from the property. £650 might sound like a lot but there is every chance the surveyors employer didn't get it all anyway.

I hope you're not trying to justify that as being good value for money! I'm pretty sure the reports are 'fill in the blanks' type things!

That's how they have appeared to me on three or four Homebuyer surveys I have had done during the past 15 years or so. It appeared to be a standard document from their professional body, edited to suit, with large sections using identical wording. It certainly wasn't a comprehensive report produced from scratch.

Homebuyers reports are neither comprehensive documents nor are they surveys as such. That's why there is the more expensive building survey. You pays your money and takes your choice. When will people start reading the description of each type of report? As with most things they are invariably happy to save a few hundred quid in commisioning a totally inappropriate report for one of the most expensive purchases they will make. I invariably advise any client wanting a detailed report to opt for a building survey btw...

Yes, I know if you want the full works, a complete 'structural survey' is the one to go for: even so, the Homebuyer version is still (at least in my experience) invariably referred to as a 'survey.'

If you do get a full structural survey done on a property it will probably contain so much doom and gloom that the vendor will be relieved to let you take it off his hands.

[blade7]

Renovation said:

LFB531 said:

you'd be better off binning the option through the lender and employing a surveyor direct who will quote you a price for the inspection and report plus some direct time with you to discuss

^ This

Tried that on a place I bought 20 years ago. Told a snotty surveyor I wanted to be present for my buildings survey and wouldn't delay him in any way, he point blank refused.

[p1esk]

blade7 said:

Renovation said:

LFB531 said:

you'd be better off binning the option through the lender and employing a surveyor direct who will quote you a price for the inspection and report plus some direct time with you to discuss

^ This

Tried that on a place I bought 20 years ago. Told a snotty surveyor I wanted to be present for my buildings survey and wouldn't delay him in any way, he point blank refused.

Exactly: if the surveyor is being engaged and paid directly by the buyer.

If it's a surveyor working for the lender, it might be more difficult, but I would still expect a reasonable degree of co-operation, so long as he is not unduly delayed in his task.

[NewNameNeeded]

surveyor said:

Frankly I don't believe 10 minutes. Quickest realistic time for a basic valuation 25 minutes - this is a small no issue modern house. This is probably what the chap was doing - not a homebuyers.

You're wrong, but entitled to that view! It was a homebuyers and my point in mentioning it was that - as in all walks of life - there are good guys and cowboys. Clearly this guy wasn't doing a good job of what his clients were paying for.

[av185]

NewNameNeeded said:

surveyor said:

Frankly I don't believe 10 minutes. Quickest realistic time for a basic valuation 25 minutes - this is a small no issue modern house. This is probably what the chap was doing - not a homebuyers.

You're wrong, but entitled to that view! It was a homebuyers and my point in mentioning it was that - as in all walks of life - there are good guys and cowboys. Clearly this guy wasn't doing a good job of what his clients were paying for.

Depends how experienced he is. A ten minute inspection from a highly experienced surveyor who perhaps knows the property and has been before is better than a two hour visit from some wet behind the ears fresh out of uni erring too much on the side of caution......

[Issi]

I think that you'll find that any surveyor worth his salt will 'err on the side of caution' , as there are so many pillocks out there.

A colleague of mine was threatened with legal action, as after the householder moved in they found it riddled with damp.
They appointed a solicitor who advised them to sue. My colleague checked his report and found that he'd mentioned damp problems throughout the property.

He responded to the claimant that he'd mentioned it, and didn't he read the report - the chap then replied that he couldn't actually read and only had the survey carried out, as he was advised to do so when buying the house.

I've also seen it on PH, where people have bought a house, and i'm paraphrasing here, but they stated - " Six months after we moved in, we stripped off three layers of wallpaper in the bedroom and found a crack in the wall - Can't believe the so -called surveyor would have missed that!!! They're all a bunch of cowboys, I could do a better job etc etc.

I mention in my reports, as I'm not an electrician/tree surgeon/ gas fitter etc that ' the wiring looks in reasonable condition, but I would recommend an electrician take a look at it to confirm it's OK'
I don't consider that this is 'covering my arse', I'm just pointing out that I'm a Surveyor and not an electrician.

[av185]

I take the view that too many surveyors err too much on the side of caution passing the buck on to e.g structural engineers etc when by and large they should be able to form an opinion on certain issues themselves. Failing to do this inevitably results in increased delays, unecessary expense for the client and an increasing public perception of their general lack of cooperation.......

[Issi]

I agree in some respects, but the issue with, for example, a significant crack in a wall. Most surveyors will have a reasonable knowledge of what MAY have caused the crack to appear, but it's not always immediately obvious, and therefore as he is only carrying out a 'normal' survey, he can't categorically state that the crack has been caused by thermal expansion or by lintel failure etc.

Often, the reason for the appearance of the crack may only be determined after carrying out trial hole investigations, monitoring, drain testing etc, which is over and beyond what the surveyor has been asked to do.

I'd love to take an educated reasoned opinion and state 'that crack in the kitchen wall is, in all likelihood, due to thermal movement- so don't worry about it' , but if the householder two years down the line found that the crack had worsened and that there was a cracked sewer pipe under the kitchen, then sure as eggs is eggs they'd be chasing me to enquire why I hadn't carried out a full survey of the drainage system using remote cameras, ground radar etc, and please could you give me the name of your PI insurers so that we can sue you.

[Eleven]

I find myself in agreement with AV185 here.

I have encountered many surveyors in the course of my work and the majority have been good. But occasionally I have come across one whose arse-covering has made his survey not just useless but damaging. Too many comments about engaging an independent inspection for this, that or the other can put the fear of God into buyers when there is absolutely no need for it.

Sure, if there's a crack up the front elevation then recommending an engineer's report is sensible. But hinting at problems that are simply unlikely to exist is out of order.

I recall one surveyor who qualified just about everything he said with, "but the client should instruct an independent report". He even went to the trouble of saying, in relation to an unmodified early Victorian villa, "In the past asbestos was a popular building material and the client should instruct an independent inspection".

On the basis that it caused the buyer to pull out, we tracked the chap down and had a chat with him. He knew he was in the wrong and agreed to re-write his report. It was too late, though, the buyer had been frightened to death. We re-sold the property and the next surveyor found very little wrong with it.

[av185]

Of course without apportioning blame it is all the fault of the legal profession......any gripe from the client and invariably the solicitor will shout 'lets try it on and sue the surveyor' from the rooftops!

Unfortunately as far back as the 90s this consequently resulted in the style of 'cover your arse' reporting which has to a degree alienated the surveyor from the public. Long gone are the days of the truly engaging individual report writing style lest this may leave you wide open to a potential claim. An extension of brand dilution I guess.....other professions have similarly been affected and likewise the surgeon who has an emergency operation to undertake can unfortunately no longer operate by 'the seat of his pants' so to speak, perhaps taking calculated risks which would save lives, using experience obtained over many years, but now has to follow protocol to the letter, diluting his talents and follow strict guidelines by which time the patient will probably have died on the operating table.......

[WindyMills]

Issi said:

I mention in my reports, as I'm not an electrician/tree surgeon/ gas fitter etc that ' the wiring looks in reasonable condition, but I would recommend an electrician take a look at it to confirm it's OK'
I don't consider that this is 'covering my arse', I'm just pointing out that I'm a Surveyor and not an electrician.

Totally agree with you. I'm 8 years through what will be 10 years of studying/training in my spare time to be MRICS - and already have Clients moaning about my comparatively low rate. If we have to be NICEIC/Gassafe too, who will pay for that?