Wood pellets or oil, ufh or rads
Discussion
CK11 said:
Can I safely say I the grants were not available oil would win when not on mains gas
With the grants in place currently pellets. Win
Er, no - we switched before the grants existed.With the grants in place currently pellets. Win
See above.
CK11 said:
Can the government stop the grants at any time they wish , ie install a pellet boiler at circa 10-12k and get the rhi payments
And in 6 months or whatever they can say we are no longer paying out and the scheme is over, even for existing customers or do they have to guarantee the 7 year payments
Also if you read the RHI, just the same as the FIT, they can't stop it. What they can do is lower the repayment level for new applicants or close it to new applications.And in 6 months or whatever they can say we are no longer paying out and the scheme is over, even for existing customers or do they have to guarantee the 7 year payments
CK11 said:
Is there a multi log and pellet boiler on this scheme?
See above.CK11 said:
Can I safely say I the grants were not available oil would win when not on mains gas
With the grants in place currently pellets. Win
Can the government stop the grants at any time they wish , ie install a pellet boiler at circa 10-12k and get the rhi payments
And in 6 months or whatever they can say we are no longer paying out and the scheme is over, even for existing customers or do they have to guarantee the 7 year payments
Is there a multi log and pellet boiler on this scheme?
They won't end the scheme, just close it. As in, if you're in, you're in. With the grants in place currently pellets. Win
Can the government stop the grants at any time they wish , ie install a pellet boiler at circa 10-12k and get the rhi payments
And in 6 months or whatever they can say we are no longer paying out and the scheme is over, even for existing customers or do they have to guarantee the 7 year payments
Is there a multi log and pellet boiler on this scheme?
You have to take into account the cost increases fro fossil fuels at x% per annum and pellets (or wood) likely to remain fairly flat. If fossil fuels increase at 7% in 10 years the fuel cost will double.
We have gone from £130 pcm for electric to half that.
We now have central heating where we didn't before.
We have water on tap rather than worrying of your shower would last until the end before the heat started to disappear.
We paid £22k all in for the boiler and all connections, flue etc and I put in the pipework and rads (cast iron school type) which I refurbed, flushed, rebushed.
We'll get over £40k back over a 7 year period.
Based on the last 12 months we'll use approx. 8 tonnes of pellets per annum (c £2,000).
CO2 output almost nil as also have a woodburner.
Edited as I'd put £4k back where it is actually £40k.
FFG
We have gone from £130 pcm for electric to half that.
We now have central heating where we didn't before.
We have water on tap rather than worrying of your shower would last until the end before the heat started to disappear.
We paid £22k all in for the boiler and all connections, flue etc and I put in the pipework and rads (cast iron school type) which I refurbed, flushed, rebushed.
We'll get over £40k back over a 7 year period.
Based on the last 12 months we'll use approx. 8 tonnes of pellets per annum (c £2,000).
CO2 output almost nil as also have a woodburner.
Edited as I'd put £4k back where it is actually £40k.
FFG
Edited by FlipFlopGriff on Monday 27th October 22:17
How come you get grants/subsidies for pellets, but not for natural wood?
I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
clockworks said:
How come you get grants/subsidies for pellets, but not for natural wood?
I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
Pretty sure you can get grants for wood but they'd have to be biomass boilers. I don't make the rules and we know how ridiculous the ideas of the people that do.I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
Agree you have to process and transport the pellets but you also have to construct oil rigs, process oil, transport gas via pipes which need maintaining, fly people back and forth to rigs etc so its not that easy. I guess we should all have big windmills in our garden, or go somewhere with a better climate which uses less energy!
FFG
clockworks said:
How come you get grants/subsidies for pellets, but not for natural wood?
I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
Eh? The RHI is for Renewable heat - logs, pellets, solar, MGS, it's not just for pellets. I assume that the subsidies are there to get people off using fossil fuels, same as with solar subsidies, but what about the fossil fuels used for manufacturing and transporting pellets (and making PV panels, for that matter)?
Oh right. I can understand the thinking behind subsidising people to use alternative sources of energy, saving the planet and all that. Using waste wood rather than digging stuff up has got to be more environmentally friendly.
Personally, I think the money would be better spent on building a few more nuclear power stations, and solving the problem of what to do with the waste. That would help everyone, not just those with the space and capital to install these things.
Personally, I think the money would be better spent on building a few more nuclear power stations, and solving the problem of what to do with the waste. That would help everyone, not just those with the space and capital to install these things.
We looked into pellets, but were put off by the very slow (if at all) growth in suppliers - in East Anglia we had very few options (and five years later, still have very few) so we would be at the mercy of the operators. In the end we went with solar, a wood burning stove with a back boiler and LPG for backup. We (two adults two kids) have daily baths and showers and usually run entirely off solar during the summer months. Winter is a mix of wood and LPG.
The heat is delivered by UFH which I'd highly recommend - even, pleasant heat and no draughts. We're not much affected by the worries about response times because (a) the house is usually occupied, (b) it's very well insulated so doesn't cool quickly and (c) we had a thin wet screed over 7" insulation so it's pretty responsive. As it is, the house just ticks over during the winter.
In your case, if you've got the space I'd consider a batch burner and big (3000+ litres) thermal store. Burning logs gives you the independence from fuel suppliers and thermal stores are great for supplying mains pressure hot water to showers etc. They also give some independence from heat sources, so you can have back-up systems and use things like solar if you so choose.
The heat is delivered by UFH which I'd highly recommend - even, pleasant heat and no draughts. We're not much affected by the worries about response times because (a) the house is usually occupied, (b) it's very well insulated so doesn't cool quickly and (c) we had a thin wet screed over 7" insulation so it's pretty responsive. As it is, the house just ticks over during the winter.
In your case, if you've got the space I'd consider a batch burner and big (3000+ litres) thermal store. Burning logs gives you the independence from fuel suppliers and thermal stores are great for supplying mains pressure hot water to showers etc. They also give some independence from heat sources, so you can have back-up systems and use things like solar if you so choose.
CK11 said:
As far as I am aware the broseley evolution 26 boiler stove is the only log burner currently on the green deal scheme, could be wrong on that though.
I do like the idea of a combined log and pellet stove, cant seem to find a lot of information on them though
Stoves? Not that I know of.I do like the idea of a combined log and pellet stove, cant seem to find a lot of information on them though
Boilers? Yes, very much so - SHT Thermodual
RedLeicester said:
Unless your house is very thermally efficient, a stove is (probably) not going to cut it, and a proper batch boiler plus store will make it far easier to maintain a comfortable environment without constantly feeding the machine. A lot depends on your lifestyle though - the in-laws have a tiny stove, light it when they get up in the morning and basically live in the room it's in during the winter.Tuna said:
Unless your house is very thermally efficient, a stove is (probably) not going to cut it, and a proper batch boiler plus store will make it far easier to maintain a comfortable environment without constantly feeding the machine. A lot depends on your lifestyle though - the in-laws have a tiny stove, light it when they get up in the morning and basically live in the room it's in during the winter.
Or very small! We have the Thermodual above along with a 3000l accumulator which feeds our DHW, UFH and upstairs rads, it's a thing of beauty.clockworks said:
I think the money would be better spent on building a few more nuclear power stations, and solving the problem of what to do with the waste. That would help everyone, not just those with the space and capital to install these things.
That is an eminently fair and sensible solution - hence it will never happen ! For those running UFH, do you leave it on 24/7 and setback to say 16oC then the thermostat fires up the boiler until say 20oC, or do you have it set on a timer or switch it on as needed?
What thickness of screed for a wet system and how long to heat up from say 16 to 20oC
Wife nagging me to fit rads and says ufh will cost a fortune to run, I don't want to make a massive mistake and get a 'told you s'o everyday for the next 25 years
What thickness of screed for a wet system and how long to heat up from say 16 to 20oC
Wife nagging me to fit rads and says ufh will cost a fortune to run, I don't want to make a massive mistake and get a 'told you s'o everyday for the next 25 years
CK11 said:
For those running UFH, do you leave it on 24/7 and setback to say 16oC then the thermostat fires up the boiler until say 20oC, or do you have it set on a timer or switch it on as needed?
What thickness of screed for a wet system and how long to heat up from say 16 to 20oC
Wife nagging me to fit rads and says ufh will cost a fortune to run, I don't want to make a massive mistake and get a 'told you s'o everyday for the next 25 years
UFH is way cheaper than rads to run, all the more so with renewables, dunno where she got that idea from. In order to run rads you need hot water up to around 70 degrees to make them hot enough to exude useful heat. For UFH that drops to 35-40. UFH is more expensive to install, but cheaper to run, vice versa for rads. We've put UFH throughout downstairs and left the rads upstairs for phase two. As it is I wish we'd just done the lot as the punch in the logwallet when the rads kick in is painful.What thickness of screed for a wet system and how long to heat up from say 16 to 20oC
Wife nagging me to fit rads and says ufh will cost a fortune to run, I don't want to make a massive mistake and get a 'told you s'o everyday for the next 25 years
Warm up time depends on how cold the slab is and how big it is. Screed thickness depends on type of UFH used and how it's installed.
Ours is all zoned and controlled using Heatmiser thermostats - it "learns" the warm up time for the room so drops a few degrees off overnight and then kicks in in time to be up to temp at your desired time. Ours isn't on 24/7 so much as 365 - it's just constantly ready to go as and when thermostats demand.
RedLeicester said:
UFH is way cheaper than rads to run
In order to run rads you need hot water up to around 70 degrees to make them hot enough to exude useful heat.
For UFH that drops to 35-40.
Ours is all zoned and controlled using Heatmiser thermostats - it "learns" the warm up time for the room so drops a few degrees off overnight and then kicks in in time to be up to temp at your desired time.
I understand that it runs at lower temps but if it's on (effectively) permanently against my rads which are on for half an hour in the morning and 5hrs at night I cannot see how it can be cheaper to run. In order to run rads you need hot water up to around 70 degrees to make them hot enough to exude useful heat.
For UFH that drops to 35-40.
Ours is all zoned and controlled using Heatmiser thermostats - it "learns" the warm up time for the room so drops a few degrees off overnight and then kicks in in time to be up to temp at your desired time.
Assuming the same size / insulated house and heat escapes at the same rate the greater the heat differential between inside / outside the more heat escapes - so my house is the same heat as yours for 5.5hrs - albeit losing more heat near the rads but yours is losing heat for 18.5 hours a day more than mine - I cannot see how that can work out cheaper.
(I'm about to spec my extension floor so want to ensure I'm not missing something)
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