ESSE wood stove problem

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crankedup

Original Poster:

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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Nine months ago we had a Esse multifuel stove installed, had a few problems with the installation but got there in the end. We burn seasoned wood only but am finding that when we open the stove door to re-fuel we are getting smoke / fumes coming into the room. Even when we allow for the flue pipe to fully warm the problem is still there, but less so. The stove was installed by people working for the shop where we purchased the stove from and they used a S/S liner through the brick flue.
We have used stoves for the past thirty years + so have experience of how these things should work. I can't fathom out what is wrong but something must be, is it the retailer responsible to have a look and fix, the stove itself carries a one year warranty.

barryrs

4,375 posts

222 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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I'm not an expert at all however a friend had a similar sounding problem and think it was lack of combustion air supply to the stove.

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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Something in the chimney?

PugwasHDJ80

7,522 posts

220 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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do you have a HETAS Certificate? Did the install the requisite air brick?


crankedup

Original Poster:

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for suggestions, chimney is clear and the stove runs at a nominal 5kw, apparently we did not require a air brick. We do have the HETAS Certificate, thankfully, I expect if it goes to a rip out re-install I shall need this. Its all very disappointing at the moment to have the room subjected to smoke when we re-fuel. I like the wood smell but less so the room decoration being spoilt. Maybe should have gone for gas!
I am going to run the stove today to a very high temp' and then see if it still smokes into the room on re-fill.

sunbeam alpine

6,936 posts

187 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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We installed a woodburner recently as part of a total refurb of our house. We had the same problem at first.

We also installed new windows which have air vents at the top. Opening these air vents when the stove is burning made this problem go away so I guess your problem has something to do with air flow.

RedLeicester

6,869 posts

244 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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Open the airflow vents on the stove ten seconds before opening the door.

crankedup

Original Poster:

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks, we do open the top air control before opening for a five/ten seconds and open the door very gingerly and slowly, and it still puffs smoke into the room.

Yes others have suggested installing an air brick, although its a fairly largish room (22'x13') the supplier seemed to think an air brick would not be needed. Maybe they were wrong!

bga

8,134 posts

250 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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Not sure if it's the same on the Esse but my Morso inset does the same if there isn't a reasonable ash bed. Not sure why that's the case though.

Dr Mike Oxgreen

4,101 posts

164 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
Does it give a decent heat output? Do you get sooty deposits on the glass? What do your flames look like - slow and lazy, or dancing about rapidly?

How old is your house, and what sort of windows do you have? This will tell us roughly how airtight it is.

How sure are you that your wood is decent, seasoned wood? Don't just accept what the seller told you, but look for the signs of well-seasoned wood: does it feel lightweight; are there cracks in it; do the logs sound hollow if you tap them together? If you don't have a moisture meter, you can get one for about a tenner - and this will tell you for sure: 20% is what you want to see, give or take a few percent.

One thing's for sure, there shouldn't really be any smoke present in the stove while it's burning, and hence no smoke should be coming out when you open it. And there shouldn't be much smoke coming out of your chimney, just a thin whisp, if that. The draw should be strong; when I open the door of my stove, I'm more worried about getting sucked in!

For what it's worth, mine is a small 5kW stove, although we do have an existing air brick and the house is a 1930s semi so not exactly airtight.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 30th October 14:09

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
This may sound stupid but did your Esse stove come with instructions? Mine (Stovax) has three different air inlets and they all need to be adjusted at various times to get the burn right. The only time I get smoke in the room is during start-up when there's a wind blowing, ie before the flue warms up.

crankedup

Original Poster:

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
Does it give a decent heat output? Do you get sooty deposits on the glass? What do your flames look like - slow and lazy, or dancing about rapidly?

How old is your house, and what sort of windows do you have? This will tell us roughly how airtight it is.

How sure are you that your wood is decent, seasoned wood? Don't just accept what the seller told you, but look for the signs of well-seasoned wood: does it feel lightweight; are there cracks in it; do the logs sound hollow if you tap them together? If you don't have a moisture meter, you can get one for about a tenner - and this will tell you for sure: 20% is what you want to see, give or take a few percent.

One thing's for sure, there shouldn't really be any smoke present in the stove while it's burning, and hence no smoke should be coming out when you open it. And there shouldn't be much smoke coming out of your chimney, just a thin whisp, if that. The draw should be strong; when I open the door of my stove, I'm more worried about getting sucked in!

For what it's worth, mine is a small 5kW stove, although we do have an existing air brick and the house is a 1930s semi so not exactly airtight.

Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 30th October 14:09
Thanks, the wood we are burning is at least 12 months standing logged up with open air stacking and lid on top. Some is older, the logs are defo' OK.

House is draught proof modern built in the 1960's double glazed.

Not much of a draw when we open the stove door at all and I must admit that although we have used stoves for decades this stove is one of the more 'high tech' airwash and overhead combustion types. It may be that we are not using the stove correctly as there is some soot on the glass door.

John : the stove did come with instruction book and I have had a re-read today. Going to light another fire today to see how it goes. (maybe hang a few kippers over the stove).

fatboy b

9,492 posts

215 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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I find so-called seasoned wood crap, and have moved to kiln-dried. That said, most woodburners have an air-wash system to keep the glass clear. When you open the door, just open it slightly to let the air-wash stabilise, then open it fully. If I open mine quickly, smoke comes out.

bigdom

2,072 posts

144 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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We have an air supply directly behind ours though the wall, makes a huge difference to it's overall burning performance when it's open. We can go through the entire winter with having to clean the glass just once, even then, it's not black, just yellowing.

captainzep

13,305 posts

191 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
quotequote all
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
Does it give a decent heat output? Do you get sooty deposits on the glass? What do your flames look like - slow and lazy, or dancing about rapidly?
It's interesting how different set ups alter the way stoves work. We had an existing (and tall) flue pumice-lined with a
Dean Forge stove fitted. My Mum liked it and had the same stove but with a steel liner which was shorter and went outside the house. Ours draws like crazy and roars when you light it -but requires a bit of fine tuning to get balanced between too fast and too slow when hot. My Mum's is slower to get going with poorer draw (and puffs of smoke when the door is opened) but more controllable when well set. Our house is draughtier than her 80's bungalow.

scdan4

1,299 posts

159 months

Thursday 30th October 2014
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have you tried it with your room window wide open? That should tell you if it is getting enough air.

AW10

4,420 posts

248 months

Friday 31st October 2014
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scdan4 said:
have you tried it with your room window wide open? That should tell you if it is getting enough air.
+1 And close the doors into the room as well.

Any chance there's an extractor fan running somewhere?

crankedup

Original Poster:

25,764 posts

242 months

Friday 31st October 2014
quotequote all
fatboy b said:
I find so-called seasoned wood crap, and have moved to kiln-dried. That said, most woodburners have an air-wash system to keep the glass clear. When you open the door, just open it slightly to let the air-wash stabilise, then open it fully. If I open mine quickly, smoke comes out.
Thanks to everyone for suggestions. Found the answer was as suggested here, open the door gently after the fire has settled. Seems it a very sensitive system and being new to this stove still learning how best to use, as someone else said, every stove is different! Thanks again all. smile

Dr Mike Oxgreen

4,101 posts

164 months

Friday 31st October 2014
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creationracing said:
I always thought if I removed the baffle (so there's a direct path up the flue) my smoke problem would go away. Do you have a baffle plate installed at all?
Without the baffle* surely most of the heat would go straight up the flue as well? I've always assumed that the baffle is crucial to ensuring that the flames are held inside the stove for a fraction longer, allowing them to burn more completely and give up more of their heat before the gases go up the flue. It also seems to set up a powerful air circulation inside the stove.

I wouldn't run without the baffle. Do the instructions of your stove say you can?

* I assume you're talking about the roughly horizontal plate of metal near the top of the stove.