toilet cistern replacement help please

[Paul Drawmer]

Time's up for this I think.
For some time now, this has made a noise as if The QE2 is coming up the drive when refilling. I assume the culprit is a diagphram in the inlet at the top right of the picture.

Now, it has also started to fail on re-filling. The water continues to flush straight out of the outlet, without filling the cistern and switching off. Some how I got it to start working again, but I guess I need to replace something.

Is a cistern kit the best thing?
Recommendations, (I only want to do it once)?
And is it a DIY job? (Close coupled cistern if that makes a difference)

Thank you PH

[Paul Drawmer]

Found this excellent vid to show me how to do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nDgSSFBt3I

So, what's the best kit to use?

[gazzarose]

It's just your ball cock (oo er madam) that's on the blink. Ine of these http://m.screwfix.com/p/fluidmaster-bottom-entry-f... will do the trick. That's a bottom entry one which I think your cistern us from the picture. Definitely doable diy with just an adjustable spanner, it'll probably take you all of 10 mins.

[Neil - YVM]

If the water is going straight through the cistern, then it is probably the flushing mechanism that is at fault.
Try lifting the arm on the filling valve, does the water then stop?

The have a look at the bottom of the flush mech, and see if you can see anything that is stopping the plunger from sealing ?

[Paul Drawmer]

Yep. it's both problems - the bottom entry inlet vibrates and makes the whole house sound like a fog horn. And it has started to fail on flushing where the flush action won't reseal, and the new inlet water just runs straight out.

So, I'm looking for a good quality replacement kit for both inlet and flush mech.

[gazzarose]

Does the cistern full then overflow or just doesn't fill and flies straight through? I read it as filing but not stopping, apologies if I've mixed it up. In my experience with these things, the bits are so cheap it's not worth fiddling, just go to screwfix and get replacements. What type of flush have you got, push button out handle?

[Paul Drawmer]

I think this might be suitable..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00A233QI8/ref=...

Its bottom fed, push button.

The water just runs straight out, doesn't fill at all, not overflowing. It doesn't do it all the time, just sometimes. I'm aware that it's just running without re-filling, but my dear wife, doesn't realise and a zillion gallons go straight down the pan. I've taken to turning off the water once I've got it to fill.

[DoubleSix]

The replacements come in different heights and shapes (cyclindrical, square etc).

Isolate and remove the parts. I took the parts to a local trade supplier and got better parts for less cash...

Fairly simple job, seal the parts in with silicone and off you go!

[Rickyy]

DoubleSix said:

The replacements come in different heights and shapes (cyclindrical, square etc).

Isolate and remove the parts. I took the parts to a local trade supplier and got better parts for less cash...

Fairly simple job, seal the parts in with silicone and off you go!

Silicone has no place in it around a toilet! The rubber seals provided are all you need to make water tight joints.

OP, before you rip the cistern apart, try removing the flush valve and cleaning the rubber seal on the bottom. Also check nothing has broken off the fill valve and become lodged in the flushing mechanism.

When you change the fill valve, try an opt for one with a with a metal threaded tail, plastics are a bugger for cross threading.

[DoubleSix]

Rickyy said:

DoubleSix said:

The replacements come in different heights and shapes (cyclindrical, square etc).

Isolate and remove the parts. I took the parts to a local trade supplier and got better parts for less cash...

Fairly simple job, seal the parts in with silicone and off you go!

Silicone has no place in it around a toilet! The rubber seals provided are all you need to make water tight joints.

OP, before you rip the cistern apart, try removing the flush valve and cleaning the rubber seal on the bottom. Also check nothing has broken off the fill valve and become lodged in the flushing mechanism.

When you change the fill valve, try an opt for one with a with a metal threaded tail, plastics are a bugger for cross threading.

If you say so, Im not a plumber.

I just replicated what I took off and there was a little bead of sillicone on the chucky plastic thread.

Seemed sensible so I did the same when refitting.

[Rickyy]

The problem with sealing with silicone is that it lubricates the rubbers, allowing them to be over tightened and twist out of shape. Also silicone degrades over time which can eventually cause a leak too.

[Megaflow]

The internals of that look a lot like our Armitagge Shanks, if so you can buy the diaphragms to go inside the filler and the outlet as spares. No need to change the whole thing.

[netherfield]

If your'e taking the cistern off get a new rubber donut as well.

[markbigears]

Just replaced the whole of mine too. My advice is to replace the lot, nuts &bolts, donut , internals, cheap as chips and easy to do. Don't use any silicon either, that's what bodgers do.

Edited by markbigears on Sunday 23 November 18:44

[netherfield]

The last time I replaced one I found a 'Derwent Macdee' it's possible to take it apart without having to remove the cistern from the pot.

[markbigears]

But it's only 2 bolts and worth replacing them as they can leak from the washers over time and worth putting a new donut on as the old one will have compressed. It's a 5 min job.

[Djtemeka]

first things first.

a quick fix for the vibration. if you have an isolation valve for the inlet then close it a little. reducing teh inlet pressure like this usually cures the vibration which usually happens once the cistern is almost full. its the pipes vibrating from the slightly faulty inlet valve.

secondly, the water constantly flowing is the outlet siphon flush.

just change both parts
the inlet is a "bottom entry" inlet valve. once you shut the water off the only tool you will need is a plumbers wrench. its an easy job to do

[Djtemeka]

if you can find the exact same outlet siphon then you dont need to remove everything. the siphon that you have just unclips much the same as a bayonet bulb would. 1/4 turn anticlockwise

[Rickyy]

markbigears said:

But it's only 2 bolts and worth replacing them as they can leak from the washers over time and worth putting a new donut on as the old one will have compressed. It's a 5 min job.

If it ain't broke.....

[Paul Drawmer]

Djtemeka said:

if you can find the exact same outlet siphon then you dont need to remove everything. the siphon that you have just unclips much the same as a bayonet bulb would. 1/4 turn anticlockwise

Cool. Thanks for that - as another poster said - it's Armitage Shanks.

Re the inlet noise - I've tried playing tunes with the inlet valve by moderating the flow. It's borked.

OK - thanks for all your help folks. Off to buy a replacement flush unit and inlet gubbins.