Boiler boiler on the wall who is most efficient of all
Discussion
Scuffers said:
OK, but there are issues with that story.
between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
Or to put it another way, my gas usage prior to the boiler replacement in 2003 was about 538 meter units per year.between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
Since the boiler was replaced, it has averaged about 350 units.
ctdctd said:
Scuffers said:
OK, but there are issues with that story.
between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
Or to put it another way, my gas usage prior to the boiler replacement in 2003 was about 538 meter units per year.between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
Since the boiler was replaced, it has averaged about 350 units.
down to 350M3 is a saving of 188M3 = ~2,100Kwh = ~£67
of right, then I agree with you, £67 a year is nothing.
edit, something wrong here?
ctdctd said:
My old Baxi back boiler lasted from 1972 to 2003 when it rusted through - so about 30 years
Gas bill about £750 per year.
are your metered units CF not M3?Gas bill about £750 per year.
that would make 538 = ~17,000Kwh and 188 = ~6,000Kwh = £192 difference..
works out a saving of ~35% on gas consumption which sounds about right.
Edited by Scuffers on Wednesday 26th November 12:30
Scuffers said:
98elise said:
My house is on its original boiler and the house was built in the 60's! Never serviced, just needs a therocouple every 4 or 5 years.
so, what does your gas bill look like? and how much is it in the summer when the heating is off?(I was amazed at just how much gas old style pilot-lights get though for 7-8 months a year)
The owner of Pimlico Plumbers is on record as saying its not cost effective to change an old boiler to save money though (ie it will cost you more in the long run)
98elise said:
Scuffers said:
98elise said:
My house is on its original boiler and the house was built in the 60's! Never serviced, just needs a therocouple every 4 or 5 years.
so, what does your gas bill look like? and how much is it in the summer when the heating is off?(I was amazed at just how much gas old style pilot-lights get though for 7-8 months a year)
The owner of Pimlico Plumbers is on record as saying its not cost effective to change an old boiler to save money though (ie it will cost you more in the long run)
Look, a decent new boiler costs what? between £600-1000, and I suspect that's about the same as most peoples annual gas bill.
on that basis, saving ~35% on your gas bill kind of points at ~3 years being the payback (and that assumes the price of gas stays the same).
Scuffers said:
at their prices, he's probably right!
Look, a decent new boiler costs what? between £600-1000, and I suspect that's about the same as most peoples annual gas bill.
on that basis, saving ~35% on your gas bill kind of points at ~3 years being the payback (and that assumes the price of gas stays the same).
But fitting it will add another 1K. Look, a decent new boiler costs what? between £600-1000, and I suspect that's about the same as most peoples annual gas bill.
on that basis, saving ~35% on your gas bill kind of points at ~3 years being the payback (and that assumes the price of gas stays the same).
My boiler is only 15 years old, is 87% efficient compared to what, 91% for a new one. It will take 20 years to recoup the money assuming repair bills are on par with the existing boiler.
It really depends on the situation, as a lot of houses will have been insulated with DG, free loft insulation etc etc masking the true saving over 20 years looking at old bills.
ctdctd said:
moles said:
No way did you have a back boiler fitted for 30 years without it needing servicing or a thermocouple that is bulls
t.
It was not serviced from 1992 when I moved into the house until 2003 when it rusted through.t. We did find a bill for service / repair of the hot water solar panels on the roof, originally installed were three units, one of these burst owing to inadequate antifreeze in system. Apparently the system had many install faults such as copper pipes with solder joints, these were all changed and the broken panel removed but not replaced. Bill just under 2K
vxsmithers said:
But fitting it will add another 1K.
My boiler is only 15 years old, is 87% efficient compared to what, 91% for a new one. It will take 20 years to recoup the money assuming repair bills are on par with the existing boiler.
It really depends on the situation, as a lot of houses will have been insulated with DG, free loft insulation etc etc masking the true saving over 20 years looking at old bills.
two comments:My boiler is only 15 years old, is 87% efficient compared to what, 91% for a new one. It will take 20 years to recoup the money assuming repair bills are on par with the existing boiler.
It really depends on the situation, as a lot of houses will have been insulated with DG, free loft insulation etc etc masking the true saving over 20 years looking at old bills.
1) if yours is that good, then no, zero point in changing it (it's already a condensing boiler to get to 87%)
2) £1K install - really? how much do you guys pay plumbers? it's a days work max
Scuffers said:
vxsmithers said:
But fitting it will add another 1K.
My boiler is only 15 years old, is 87% efficient compared to what, 91% for a new one. It will take 20 years to recoup the money assuming repair bills are on par with the existing boiler.
It really depends on the situation, as a lot of houses will have been insulated with DG, free loft insulation etc etc masking the true saving over 20 years looking at old bills.
two comments:My boiler is only 15 years old, is 87% efficient compared to what, 91% for a new one. It will take 20 years to recoup the money assuming repair bills are on par with the existing boiler.
It really depends on the situation, as a lot of houses will have been insulated with DG, free loft insulation etc etc masking the true saving over 20 years looking at old bills.
1) if yours is that good, then no, zero point in changing it (it's already a condensing boiler to get to 87%)
2) £1K install - really? how much do you guys pay plumbers? it's a days work max
That's what we paid for our install but there was other work included. Took two of them two days plus a sparky for half a day.
Scuffers said:
2) £1K install - really? how much do you guys pay plumbers? it's a days work max
Just had this job done after several quotes and that's what we were quoted, even for a what seemed to me like a very straight swap from an older WB combi to a new one so didn't even need a new gas supply to the boiler.If you use someone VAT registered then £167 of that is VAT.
What they all moan about is the amount of paperwork involved - it's got to be registered with building control, Gas-Safe and WB.
We also had the whole system replaced (separate quote) - if you just have the boiler changed you're on dodgy ground warranty wise if you don't have the system flushed and that's time consuming.
Blimey!
All I can say is that when we re-plumed the house here, (15 radiators, sealed tank, boiler, all the pipework, running new gas supply pipework, etc etc) the labour bill in total was under £3K inc, that was a weeks work for 2.5 guys.
fitting the boiler including flue etc took them less than half a day.
realistically, they were charging ~£300 a day
All I can say is that when we re-plumed the house here, (15 radiators, sealed tank, boiler, all the pipework, running new gas supply pipework, etc etc) the labour bill in total was under £3K inc, that was a weeks work for 2.5 guys.
fitting the boiler including flue etc took them less than half a day.
realistically, they were charging ~£300 a day
We had our 27yr old Potterton changed about 3.5yrs ago, it was working fine but we took advantage of the Government boiler scrappage scheme + had a good friend do the job at mates rates. All in a WB Greenstar 24ri (I think) came in at about £1100 fitted, the estimated savings back then were £150pa but I didn't want it conking out mid winter & needing to be replaced leaving us without heating for days on ened.
The added advantage is the new one is smaller & quieter & looks much less obtrusive in our kitchen. It will also fit in a cupboard when we eventually replace our kitchen, the old one wouldn't have.
The added advantage is the new one is smaller & quieter & looks much less obtrusive in our kitchen. It will also fit in a cupboard when we eventually replace our kitchen, the old one wouldn't have.
Scuffers said:
Blimey!
All I can say is that when we re-plumed the house here, (15 radiators, sealed tank, boiler, all the pipework, running new gas supply pipework, etc etc) the labour bill in total was under £3K inc, that was a weeks work for 2.5 guys.
fitting the boiler including flue etc took them less than half a day.
realistically, they were charging ~£300 a day
They were slacking - took 2 guys 2 days to do ours. Not quite as big, to be fair, but we visited in the evening of the first day and I was gobsmacked by how much they'd done. They had planned 3 days but said some jobs just fall nicely and ours had. I don't have a parts & labour breakdown but I suppose the total labour would be a couple of £K inc VAT so if it had taken the 3 days that's a broadly similar day rate.All I can say is that when we re-plumed the house here, (15 radiators, sealed tank, boiler, all the pipework, running new gas supply pipework, etc etc) the labour bill in total was under £3K inc, that was a weeks work for 2.5 guys.
fitting the boiler including flue etc took them less than half a day.
realistically, they were charging ~£300 a day
moles said:
No way did you have a back boiler fitted for 30 years without it needing servicing or a thermocouple that is bullst.
I agree as it's likely you would be dead from CO poisoning as they are notorious for needing servicing at very short intervals, often less than 12 months when pets lay near them.t. They drag all the dust out of the room,, the burner airways get restricted and incomplete combustion results in the flue ways becoming blocked with soot, while producing CO.
forest07 said:
I agree as it's likely you would be dead from CO poisoning as they are notorious for needing servicing at very short intervals, often less than 12 months when pets lay near them.
They drag all the dust out of the room,, the burner airways get restricted and incomplete combustion results in the flue ways becoming blocked with soot, while producing CO.
I must be dead then.They drag all the dust out of the room,, the burner airways get restricted and incomplete combustion results in the flue ways becoming blocked with soot, while producing CO.
Oh, and cobblers. It was dirty but always lit fine from its pilot light until the flood of water put it out!
Flue is fine and is still in use, unswept, with the gas fire that replaced the back boiler.
The dead boiler is still in the fireplace as well, just disconnected and pushed back a bit.
ctdctd said:
I must be dead then.
The dead boiler is still in the fireplace as well, just disconnected and pushed back a bit.
No sure that leaving the boiler in situ meets with current regulations!The dead boiler is still in the fireplace as well, just disconnected and pushed back a bit.
I presume your Gas Safe installer removed or replaced the flue liner or at least did an end to end inspection of the old liner.
Edited by forest07 on Thursday 27th November 09:54
Just had our boiler changed as the Gloworm we inherited with the house was well and truly knackered.
Assuming you do need a change it is worth noting that Ideal have a ten year and Worcester Bosch a seven year parts and labour warranty at the moment assuming you get it serviced every year.
Assuming you do need a change it is worth noting that Ideal have a ten year and Worcester Bosch a seven year parts and labour warranty at the moment assuming you get it serviced every year.
if it aint broke don't fix it unless your going to recover the outlay in the period you are likely to remain in the house.... and boiler replacements can be intrusive depending on what youre changing from/to
our badboy is a 20+ year old kingfisher potterton II and yes it only about 70% efficient but its serviced annually on the dot and im still paying less than 1500 squid per annum for duel fuel for a 130m2 crusty old 1920's house...
our badboy is a 20+ year old kingfisher potterton II and yes it only about 70% efficient but its serviced annually on the dot and im still paying less than 1500 squid per annum for duel fuel for a 130m2 crusty old 1920's house...
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