Boiler boiler on the wall who is most efficient of all
Discussion
Our mains gas boiler is around 28 years old, still it runs fine with no problems. Heats the radiators and hot water to the cylinder. The house (built mid sixties) is fully insulated to a good standard. The question : Would we really benefit financially if we were to go for a new boiler?
Simpo Two said:
This. Especially as it seems that (from what I see on here) modern boilers are made of cardboard and break after 2-5 years.
People acccept really badly made products these days. I have a client (Mad!) who has a old floor mounted boiler thats been going 30 years . We clean it out every 2-3 years and add chemicals etc .It never goes wrong !Edited by soi6 on Tuesday 25th November 19:00
soi6 said:
Simpo Two said:
This. Especially as it seems that (from what I see on here) modern boilers are made of cardboard and break after 2-5 years.
People acccept really badly made products these days. I have a client (Mad!) who has a old floor mounted boiler thats been going 30 years . We clean it out every 2-3 years and add chemicals etc .It never goes wrong !Edited by soi6 on Tuesday 25th November 19:00
Just put the counter opinion here i simply don't agree with an old boiler isn't worth changing because you won't make the money back.
A 30 year old boiler is going to be at best 60 percent efficient a new one will be 90 percent efficient and when you consider that your typical boiler will eat its own value in gas every year it's pretty obvious it's not gonna take more than 2 or 3 years to pay for itself if not less, then consider the price of gas is only ever going to go up so this payback period will only get shorter.
A 30 year old boiler is going to be at best 60 percent efficient a new one will be 90 percent efficient and when you consider that your typical boiler will eat its own value in gas every year it's pretty obvious it's not gonna take more than 2 or 3 years to pay for itself if not less, then consider the price of gas is only ever going to go up so this payback period will only get shorter.
Edited by Scuffers on Wednesday 26th November 07:20
98elise said:
My house is on its original boiler and the house was built in the 60's! Never serviced, just needs a therocouple every 4 or 5 years.
so, what does your gas bill look like? and how much is it in the summer when the heating is off?(I was amazed at just how much gas old style pilot-lights get though for 7-8 months a year)
Scuffers said:
Just put the counter opinion here i simply don't agree with an old boiler isn't worth changing because you won't make the money back.
A 30 year old boiler is going to be at best 60 percent efficient a new one will be 90 percent efficient and when you consider that your typical boiler will eat its own value in gas every year it's pretty obvious it's not gonna take more than 2 or 3 years to pay for itself if not less, then consider the price of gas is only ever going to go up so this payback period will only get shorter.
How long will the new boiler last ? A friend had one fail after 5 years, heat exchange failed, told it would be cheaper to fit a new boiler, then you have the unreliability of new boilers that force you to take out a service contract if you want to keep warm when the winter comes, the life expectancy of new boilers is what 10-15 years Max, I think if you add up all the costs other will not be much difference.A 30 year old boiler is going to be at best 60 percent efficient a new one will be 90 percent efficient and when you consider that your typical boiler will eat its own value in gas every year it's pretty obvious it's not gonna take more than 2 or 3 years to pay for itself if not less, then consider the price of gas is only ever going to go up so this payback period will only get shorter.
Edited by Scuffers on Wednesday 26th November 07:20
Similarly to scuffers I was amazed how much our gas consumption came down after fitting a new boiler. Even though it's firing for longer in the day, with the fully modulating burner just ticking over on minimum after the first few minutes, it's clear that real consumption has gone down.
The old boiler was, in theory somewhere down in Band G but in reality what it's efficiency was God knows. Couple that with having to get up to a cold house in the morning once or more every couple of weeks as it had refused to light. Standing in a freezing garage removing housing and viewing window as the pilot light refused to light on the button despite repeated attention by the engineers.
Our monthly energy bill has since reduced from 178 to 111 pcm dual fuel. Not all of that is down to the boiler but looking at gas volume consumption figures a fair chunk of it is.
The old boiler was, in theory somewhere down in Band G but in reality what it's efficiency was God knows. Couple that with having to get up to a cold house in the morning once or more every couple of weeks as it had refused to light. Standing in a freezing garage removing housing and viewing window as the pilot light refused to light on the button despite repeated attention by the engineers.
Our monthly energy bill has since reduced from 178 to 111 pcm dual fuel. Not all of that is down to the boiler but looking at gas volume consumption figures a fair chunk of it is.
PRTVR said:
How long will the new boiler last ? A friend had one fail after 5 years, heat exchange failed, told it would be cheaper to fit a new boiler, then you have the unreliability of new boilers that force you to take out a service contract if you want to keep warm when the winter comes, the life expectancy of new boilers is what 10-15 years Max, I think if you add up all the costs other will not be much difference.
that's an argument for not buying a cheap POS boiler with ali exchanger.plenty of decent ones out there with stainless rather than cheap ali, and a lot with 10+ years warrantee's and we are talking under £1K (including VAT)
My old Baxi back boiler lasted from 1972 to 2003 when it rusted through - so about 30 years
Gas bill about £750 per year.
Repair and service costs nil.
1st replacement was a cheapy Ravenheat condensing combi - cost £1200 to supply and fit by a friend of a friend who probably shouldn't have done it!
Gas bill fell to about £600 per year.
It always struggled to light on damp days and finally gave up all together after 9 years
Repair costs £122 for a fan.
Saving over conventional boiler £28 for 9 years service!
Current one is a Worcester Bosch - cost £2030 to supply and fit last year with 7 year guarantee
Ongoing maintenance £60 pear year for a service to keep guarantee
Works fine.
Assuming same gas usage and no repair costs, it will have to last 22.5 years to be cheaper than the conventional one.
However, I now have constant on demand hot water, no noisy back boiler, and I save lots of fluffy polar bears as I am emitting less carbons!
Gas bill about £750 per year.
Repair and service costs nil.
1st replacement was a cheapy Ravenheat condensing combi - cost £1200 to supply and fit by a friend of a friend who probably shouldn't have done it!
Gas bill fell to about £600 per year.
It always struggled to light on damp days and finally gave up all together after 9 years
Repair costs £122 for a fan.
Saving over conventional boiler £28 for 9 years service!
Current one is a Worcester Bosch - cost £2030 to supply and fit last year with 7 year guarantee
Ongoing maintenance £60 pear year for a service to keep guarantee
Works fine.
Assuming same gas usage and no repair costs, it will have to last 22.5 years to be cheaper than the conventional one.
However, I now have constant on demand hot water, no noisy back boiler, and I save lots of fluffy polar bears as I am emitting less carbons!
ctdctd said:
My old Baxi back boiler lasted from 1972 to 2003 when it rusted through - so about 30 years
Gas bill about £750 per year.
Repair and service costs nil.
1st replacement was a cheapy Ravenheat condensing combi - cost £1200 to supply and fit by a friend of a friend who probably shouldn't have done it!
Gas bill fell to about £600 per year.
It always struggled to light on damp days and finally gave up all together after 9 years
Repair costs £122 for a fan.
Saving over conventional boiler £28 for 9 years service!
Current one is a Worcester Bosch - cost £2030 to supply and fit last year with 7 year guarantee
Ongoing maintenance £60 pear year for a service to keep guarantee
Works fine.
Assuming same gas usage and no repair costs, it will have to last 22.5 years to be cheaper than the conventional one.
However, I now have constant on demand hot water, no noisy back boiler, and I save lots of fluffy polar bears as I am emitting less carbons!
Ah but if take in the carbon needed to produce the extra boilers from the mining of the raw materials you may have been responsible for killing a few of the ever growing population of polar bears.Gas bill about £750 per year.
Repair and service costs nil.
1st replacement was a cheapy Ravenheat condensing combi - cost £1200 to supply and fit by a friend of a friend who probably shouldn't have done it!
Gas bill fell to about £600 per year.
It always struggled to light on damp days and finally gave up all together after 9 years
Repair costs £122 for a fan.
Saving over conventional boiler £28 for 9 years service!
Current one is a Worcester Bosch - cost £2030 to supply and fit last year with 7 year guarantee
Ongoing maintenance £60 pear year for a service to keep guarantee
Works fine.
Assuming same gas usage and no repair costs, it will have to last 22.5 years to be cheaper than the conventional one.
However, I now have constant on demand hot water, no noisy back boiler, and I save lots of fluffy polar bears as I am emitting less carbons!
OK, but there are issues with that story.
between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
between boilers, the price of gas has not stood still, so if you're going to be accurate, you need to factor in how much more it would have cost at todays gas price.
Also, as you rightly said, buy cheap crap, it's not going to cut it, same for anything in life, buy cheap, buy twice.
PRTVR said:
If fracking takes off, gas prices may fall, as has happened in America.
Maybe it's just me being a jaundiced old fart but I reckon we could be floating on a gas deposit that would make the US fields look like the contents of a small gas bottle and UK gas prices would not be allowed to fall.
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