Electric Heating

[ecs]

My property is fitted with a combination of electric storage heaters and really basic electric radiators. The system is over 10 years old and two of the storage heaters are defective; I also think they're pretty useless - the off peak rate for electricity is barely any cheaper than peak and they take an age to heat up over night keeping my flat nice and warm all day...while I'm at work

Even though I could repair the faulty heaters, I think I'd like to look into changing the system to something a bit more modern. Gas isn't an option and I think electric is probably better than gas these days anyway?

I've seen that you can get fluid filled electric radiators which are wirelessly controlled so I could replace the existing system without a huge amount of disruption. The concern I have is that I have an Economy 7 meter and the storage heaters have two power supplies - presumably an off-peak supply and an on-peak one.

Would I have to completely re-wire everything making this quite a complex job? I appreciate it might be quite difficult to answer this question without seeing how everything's connected up!

[jrinns]

I'm in the same boat. Just moved into an Old Property, some of the storage heaters are not so good. All are very old Dimplex 3.4KW. The system seems to work but a couple could do with replacing.

What models are you looking at?, I've had a look at Dimplex Quantum and as we have plug sockets near the Economy 7 outlet we could maybe convert them for the dual feed. Can you do the same? or is this a big no no Electricity wise, Ive yet to ask my Electrician and its only a thought.

[ecs]

I think I've got the same Dimplex heaters as you at the moment... Huge, heavy, useless things!

I came across these: http://www.bestelectricradiators.co.uk/comfort-con... - I could replace every heater in the property for around £1.5k using those. I think I'm in the same boat as you with the wiring though - not sure what to do with the existing Economy 7 stuff so will need to speak to an electrician about it all.

[jrinns]

So whats that going to cost to run? Any figures ? So you will do away with the Economy 7 or try to use it on both?

[ecs]

I want to get of the storage heaters - if that means getting rid of Economy 7 then that's fine. I don't find Economy 7 saves me much money compared to where I've lived previously.

More maths is needed though to figure out the running costs of electric radiators - Was trying to figure out the fitting costs first though.

[jrinns]

this site seems to have running costs listed http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Haverland_RC4...

[Scuffers]

ecs said:

I want to get of the storage heaters - if that means getting rid of Economy 7 then that's fine. I don't find Economy 7 saves me much money compared to where I've lived previously.

More maths is needed though to figure out the running costs of electric radiators - Was trying to figure out the fitting costs first though.

in basic terms, storage heaters only add up using econ 7

depending on the deal you're on, night rate is ~1/3 the cost of day rate, BUT, compared to single rate deals, day rate will be more than plain single rate.

IMHO electric heating is the worst choice anybody can make, at best, you're paying ~3 times the price per KWh for gas or oil.

and done take any notice of the bullst efficiency figure they give, it's meaningless, an electric radiator will always be 100% efficient (where else is the energy going to go apart from heat??).

I assume also that you have an immersion heater for hot water too?

Is Gas/Oil totally impossible?

[hairyben]

ecs said:

I want to get of the storage heaters - if that means getting rid of Economy 7 then that's fine. I don't find Economy 7 saves me much money compared to where I've lived previously.

More maths is needed though to figure out the running costs of electric radiators - Was trying to figure out the fitting costs first though.

Depends how you heated there of course but E7 should be cheaper than peak rate electric heating, unit cost should be less than half.

Modern storage heaters are quite relaible, elements can be replaced or it might be the stat/thermal link esp if people have been stuffing clothes on it. In use they're bit like what people say about range cookers- it's not just off'n'on, you need to understand how to use them. Evan if you decide to go peak rate I'd consider one or two storage heaters in the core of the house- hall, lounge etc left on full to warm the core at cheap rate with peak heating to boost as necessary, thus some of the benefit of both.

Converting a circuit by swapping the feed from the E7 board to peak rate shouldn't be difficult, or convert the whole E7 board to peak rate by swapping the tails across.

I'm fitting some electric rads by aaragon in a few weeks for a client. Can let you know what they're like. Personally in your shoes I'd give some serious thought to underfloor heating, obviously more cost and upheaval but can make a negative aspect of a property (electric heating) into a positive for many people. Air conditioner/heat pump is another interesting option.

[ecs]

Speaking of elements, the two heaters which have failed had broken elements in them, which I replaced. I suspect there's something a bit more seriously wrong with them but I'm loathed to try and repair them any further (due to my dislike of them, even if it is a bit wrong to hate them so much!). The heaters in the bedrooms are standard electric radiators too - these actually seem a bit under-powered for the room size.

Underfloor heating is a bit of a no-no unfortunately - the property is a flat and I can't go laying pipework in concrete.

[herewego]

Are there no controls on storage heaters to delay the output until when you need it? e.g. heat overnight and release the next evening?
There's lots of nonsense out there selling electric heaters, I've see some on TV sales asking hundreds of pounds for two heaters. Electric heaters are very simple and normally are very cheap. There are no fitting costs, you just plug them in and use them. Cheap to buy and expensive to use. Look for air source heat pumps.

[BoRED S2upid]

You can get electric under floor heating now we looked into it for our bathroom. Not sure if it can be scaled up for a whole house but it looked an effective idea for a bathroom / wet room. Electric panels go down first then membrane then tiles etc...

[Scuffers]

BoRED S2upid said:

You can get electric under floor heating now we looked into it for our bathroom. Not sure if it can be scaled up for a whole house but it looked an effective idea for a bathroom / wet room. Electric panels go down first then membrane then tiles etc...

you can, but the running costs can quickly get out of hand!

fine for small rooms (bathroom/shower/etc) but a whole house?

when all said and done, gas is still cheap, elec is 3-4X the cost and is only ever going to go up.

[hairyben]

Scuffers said:

BoRED S2upid said:

You can get electric under floor heating now we looked into it for our bathroom. Not sure if it can be scaled up for a whole house but it looked an effective idea for a bathroom / wet room. Electric panels go down first then membrane then tiles etc...

you can, but the running costs can quickly get out of hand!

fine for small rooms (bathroom/shower/etc) but a whole house?

when all said and done, gas is still cheap, elec is 3-4X the cost and is only ever going to go up.

That'd be useful for the OP if he had gas available and wasn't tied to electricity.

as far as peak rate heating goes underfloor is probably the cheapest to run due to the efficiency. You can get various systems only a couple of mm thick such as ribbons, panels to go under carpets, wood, laminate etc etc.

[Scuffers]

hairyben said:

Scuffers said:

BoRED S2upid said:

You can get electric under floor heating now we looked into it for our bathroom. Not sure if it can be scaled up for a whole house but it looked an effective idea for a bathroom / wet room. Electric panels go down first then membrane then tiles etc...

you can, but the running costs can quickly get out of hand!

fine for small rooms (bathroom/shower/etc) but a whole house?

when all said and done, gas is still cheap, elec is 3-4X the cost and is only ever going to go up.

That'd be useful for the OP if he had gas available and wasn't tied to electricity.

as far as peak rate heating goes underfloor is probably the cheapest to run due to the efficiency. You can get various systems only a couple of mm thick such as ribbons, panels to go under carpets, wood, laminate etc etc.

all good stuff we're going on about efficiency is pretty mean when you consider any losses in the system end up as heat anyway.

ok just because the OP doesn't have gas does it mean to say doesn't have oil available nothing right now oil is by far the cheapest.

even if you ignore the current low price of oil and go back to 6 months ago price, it's still way under the price for electricity

[hairyben]

Scuffers said:

hairyben said:

Scuffers said:

BoRED S2upid said:

You can get electric under floor heating now we looked into it for our bathroom. Not sure if it can be scaled up for a whole house but it looked an effective idea for a bathroom / wet room. Electric panels go down first then membrane then tiles etc...

you can, but the running costs can quickly get out of hand!

fine for small rooms (bathroom/shower/etc) but a whole house?

when all said and done, gas is still cheap, elec is 3-4X the cost and is only ever going to go up.

That'd be useful for the OP if he had gas available and wasn't tied to electricity.

as far as peak rate heating goes underfloor is probably the cheapest to run due to the efficiency. You can get various systems only a couple of mm thick such as ribbons, panels to go under carpets, wood, laminate etc etc.

all good stuff we're going on about efficiency is pretty mean when you consider any losses in the system end up as heat anyway.

ok just because the OP doesn't have gas does it mean to say doesn't have oil available nothing right now oil is by far the cheapest.

even if you ignore the current low price of oil and go back to 6 months ago price, it's still way under the price for electricity

The OP could heat his house with oil, but he could heat it by putting on pink lingerie, getting on grindr and organising a 20 man orgy. He asked about electric though, thus this has been the basis of the advice.

Underfloor will be more efficient for most applications - a panel heater may typically be stuffed under a window with high external wall heat losses, it may heat the room unevenly requiring turning up higher to heat more of the room, or convect heat via the ceiling wasting energy in the process.

[BoRED S2upid]

Has oil ever been a cheap way to hear a house? I experienced oil once 10 years ago and it was a fortune.

Anyway back to electric. Can the op combine solar panels with electric heating of various types to, in the long run, get cheaper bills?

[Scuffers]

BoRED S2upid said:

Has oil ever been a cheap way to hear a house? I experienced oil once 10 years ago and it was a fortune.

Anyway back to electric. Can the op combine solar panels with electric heating of various types to, in the long run, get cheaper bills?

Oil - never going to be the cheapest (although at current price is may be!), issues are tanks, and the cost of efficient boilers.

Electric - always going to be expensive, (remember how we generate electricity)

Solar PV - max size is typically 4kw, pails into insignificance compared to house heating requirements (to put this in context, my livingroom has a 4.4Kw of radiator).

Mates house has elec underfloor heating, and the bills are eyewateringly high, like 4-5000Kwh a month

[ecs]

I looked into electric underfloor previously. The cost of re-laying the floors and running the system was huge - it's a pretty big place with wooden floors throughout, apart from the bedrooms.

[herewego]

I think your best option is to look into modern controllable storage heaters.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/domestic/conte...