Discussion
Will try and make this as short as possible
Close to competition on a partly new built property but have came to a major problem gaining an easement to use the lane way up to the house ( detached in the country up a quarter mile lane )
We would own rights to the 2nd half of the lane but another person would own the 1st half as they own the land on both sides Of that half
No other houses on the lane way , but was previously an old farm house there for approx 30/40 years until about 1996 when it was demolished
Water also runs along the lane way from the roadside which we would need an easement for incase of leaks etc
The owner of the 1st half of the lane seems to have some issue with the current vendors and won't sign anything to say we can access this to for example cut back hedges or get to the water pipes if needed etc
My solicitor has said if we did buy the house we probably wouldn't be able to sell it again as it would be unmortgageable without a written easement ( we will be cash buyers )
Anything that can be done here without basically getting the current vendors to try and ' pay off ' the owner ?
Cheers
Close to competition on a partly new built property but have came to a major problem gaining an easement to use the lane way up to the house ( detached in the country up a quarter mile lane )
We would own rights to the 2nd half of the lane but another person would own the 1st half as they own the land on both sides Of that half
No other houses on the lane way , but was previously an old farm house there for approx 30/40 years until about 1996 when it was demolished
Water also runs along the lane way from the roadside which we would need an easement for incase of leaks etc
The owner of the 1st half of the lane seems to have some issue with the current vendors and won't sign anything to say we can access this to for example cut back hedges or get to the water pipes if needed etc
My solicitor has said if we did buy the house we probably wouldn't be able to sell it again as it would be unmortgageable without a written easement ( we will be cash buyers )
Anything that can be done here without basically getting the current vendors to try and ' pay off ' the owner ?
Cheers
I think a key question is who laid the pipe for the water. If it isn't owned by the water company (as they may have some kind of easement) then the lane owner could switch the water off to your property. The act referenced will not help stop that. We lived with this kind of threat through many years of legal wranglings that cost many thousands (tens of) to sort out, it caused unbelievable stress.
Couple that with you don't mention any easements at all - how are you even getting to your house? He could put a gate up and lock it, without an easement you have no right to a key/entry.
Having gone through what I did, and with the land owner already showing signs of being unreasonable I would not proceed without full easements. You may be able to force access with I think its called an estoppel, but will cost you a lot and won't sort the water.
Couple that with you don't mention any easements at all - how are you even getting to your house? He could put a gate up and lock it, without an easement you have no right to a key/entry.
Having gone through what I did, and with the land owner already showing signs of being unreasonable I would not proceed without full easements. You may be able to force access with I think its called an estoppel, but will cost you a lot and won't sort the water.
ozzuk said:
Couple that with you don't mention any easements at all - how are you even getting to your house?
Agreed; if you don't have any easement or right of access at all, you're got a serious issue, but then I can't conceive of anyone being stupid enough to build a house without such rights, in the first place.According to my solicitor he cannot prevent us from using the lane way to access the house, and if he tried to block us etc he wouldn't have a leg to stand on even without written consent. The problem is a mortgage company will need this easement for any future sale if we decide to move and haven't got the easement by then.
Also the fact we have no right to access his land to repair any water pipes etc if ever needed , though not sure how he could stop us when it comes to a necessity like water, surely this wouldn't be allowed if it needed to get to that stage
We have no idea who initially laid the water pipe, it's been there for many years and serviced the old farmhouse
The mains is on the roadside verge
Ideally obviously we want written consent for the easement but if we can't get that we want to make sure we are covered
To live without worry and not to effect any future sale even if it's likely to be 20+ years away
Also the fact we have no right to access his land to repair any water pipes etc if ever needed , though not sure how he could stop us when it comes to a necessity like water, surely this wouldn't be allowed if it needed to get to that stage
We have no idea who initially laid the water pipe, it's been there for many years and serviced the old farmhouse
The mains is on the roadside verge
Ideally obviously we want written consent for the easement but if we can't get that we want to make sure we are covered
To live without worry and not to effect any future sale even if it's likely to be 20+ years away
So at least you have control at the moment.
Chrisgr31 said:
Hmmm lets think about this. House cant sell without an easement. Neighbour won't grant an easement. Potential buyers wont take risk, house value falls. Neighbour buys house, grants easement, sells it on
Or to short cut that scenario the current seller needs to offer a fair whack to get the easement now. If the guy just won't grant an easement at any cost then:Inkyfingers said:
Sounds like the guy that owns the first part of the lane is being a bit unreasonable, do you want to get involved with someone like that?
Chrisgr31 said:
Hmmm lets think about this. House cant sell without an easement. Neighbour won't grant an easement. Potential buyers wont take risk, house value falls. Neighbour buys house, grants easement, sells it on
Farmer near where I grew up refused an easement for access to a soakaway on his property when next door came up for sale. Sale fell through and Farmer's Son now lives next door.You need to establish what your legal rights are and aren't. I'd want to know what part of the Law the Solicitor is relying on when he says you have access to the property and what rights that law gives you. Though you can rely on his insurance to cover you if he's advising you incorrectly, it won't help with the potential stress caused.
Is the property land-locked or would it be possible to get the water in another way? Price it up and knock that and 10% off your offer. Can you drill a well? If the farmer is trying to ransom the easement it would be good to beat him at his own game.
What conversation have you had with the farmer? I would explain your position and ask him to explain his. If he has fallen out with the neighbour, why doesn't he want you living there instead? If he doesn't like the neighbour so doesn't want to help them, perhaps he'll agree to sell you an easement directly. Perhaps he'll sell you the lane itself or what about buying a significant strip wither side too so he's getting over the odds for the land and you get a more impressive entrance.
If you can't get anywhere with convincing him to play ball, you might as well ask him straight whether he intends to buy at a knock-down price and then grant himself the easement. At least then you'll know whether the situation is resolvable.
Of course, the vendor may not be able to sell at a knock-down price, so he might have to play a very long game that could potentially go for generations.
If you can be a bit creative and resolve this issue it could work well for you financially.
paulrockliffe said:
Farmer near where I grew up refused an easement for access to a soakaway on his property when next door came up for sale. Sale fell through and Farmer's Son now lives next door.
You need to establish what your legal rights are and aren't. I'd want to know what part of the Law the Solicitor is relying on when he says you have access to the property and what rights that law gives you. Though you can rely on his insurance to cover you if he's advising you incorrectly, it won't help with the potential stress caused.
Is the property land-locked or would it be possible to get the water in another way? Price it up and knock that and 10% off your offer. Can you drill a well? If the farmer is trying to ransom the easement it would be good to beat him at his own game.
What conversation have you had with the farmer? I would explain your position and ask him to explain his. If he has fallen out with the neighbour, why doesn't he want you living there instead? If he doesn't like the neighbour so doesn't want to help them, perhaps he'll agree to sell you an easement directly. Perhaps he'll sell you the lane itself or what about buying a significant strip wither side too so he's getting over the odds for the land and you get a more impressive entrance.
If you can't get anywhere with convincing him to play ball, you might as well ask him straight whether he intends to buy at a knock-down price and then grant himself the easement. At least then you'll know whether the situation is resolvable.
Of course, the vendor may not be able to sell at a knock-down price, so he might have to play a very long game that could potentially go for generations.
If you can be a bit creative and resolve this issue it could work well for you financially.
Yes the property is landlocked, the person who owns the 1st half of the laneway is in their 80's, 2 sons or daughters live in a different country. It would be possible to get water in another way, but would be about at least half a mile across fields ( easement no problem )You need to establish what your legal rights are and aren't. I'd want to know what part of the Law the Solicitor is relying on when he says you have access to the property and what rights that law gives you. Though you can rely on his insurance to cover you if he's advising you incorrectly, it won't help with the potential stress caused.
Is the property land-locked or would it be possible to get the water in another way? Price it up and knock that and 10% off your offer. Can you drill a well? If the farmer is trying to ransom the easement it would be good to beat him at his own game.
What conversation have you had with the farmer? I would explain your position and ask him to explain his. If he has fallen out with the neighbour, why doesn't he want you living there instead? If he doesn't like the neighbour so doesn't want to help them, perhaps he'll agree to sell you an easement directly. Perhaps he'll sell you the lane itself or what about buying a significant strip wither side too so he's getting over the odds for the land and you get a more impressive entrance.
If you can't get anywhere with convincing him to play ball, you might as well ask him straight whether he intends to buy at a knock-down price and then grant himself the easement. At least then you'll know whether the situation is resolvable.
Of course, the vendor may not be able to sell at a knock-down price, so he might have to play a very long game that could potentially go for generations.
If you can be a bit creative and resolve this issue it could work well for you financially.
I really don't think he intends to buy it, as I said he has ample opportunity to if he had wanted.
He had an issue which the current owner whereby they basically done some work on the laneway without permission ( actually added value ) and didn't clear some ditches for drainage etc etc and he has now dug his heels in and wont sign anything.
He doesn't actually need to use the laneway for anything , no other houses up it etc
If we bought it we would partly own the 2nd half of the lane with him, and him entirely owning the 1st half.
Bet2502 said:
Yes the property is landlocked, the person who owns the 1st half of the laneway is in their 80's, 2 sons or daughters live in a different country. It would be possible to get water in another way, but would be about at least half a mile across fields ( easement no problem )
What are you going to do when 80 y/o dies, offspring sells land, and new owner sees opportunity to cash in?What's the likely cost of the alternative route in? To my mind, in the absence of any easement, you should be pricing in it being needed...
Cash in? The land is currently set with trees and is in a Greenbelt area, cannot be built on if that's what you mean
The house we are trying to buy was only got planning because of the previous farmhouse and built under strict conditions
Alternative route in isn't feasible unfortunately. It's going to be a written easement or legal alternative or we walk in afraid
The house we are trying to buy was only got planning because of the previous farmhouse and built under strict conditions
Alternative route in isn't feasible unfortunately. It's going to be a written easement or legal alternative or we walk in afraid
Edited by Bet2502 on Sunday 30th November 08:58
That's not an option, we either get the vendors to get an easement before completion at their cost
Or if we can find some legal route that enables us to proceed or we pull out
Def won't be taking a punt
Going to put some pressure on this week to get answers either way and then walk if needed
The vendors must know the house is unsellable without the easement
Or if we can find some legal route that enables us to proceed or we pull out
Def won't be taking a punt
Going to put some pressure on this week to get answers either way and then walk if needed
The vendors must know the house is unsellable without the easement
Sounds like your best bet might be too get the easement yourself then if the owners are on bad terms with the farmer. Sell it to the farmer as getting rid of people he doesn't like. Make it worth his while to deal with you, pay him, buy the whole lane, buy the land either side at an inflated price. Then pass the cost on through a reduced purchase price.
As I said before, resolving the issue yourself is potentially very worthwhile as you can add value to an asset you've bought cheaply.
Obviously get any agreement with the farmer on a contract that is subject to you purchasing the house.
As I said before, resolving the issue yourself is potentially very worthwhile as you can add value to an asset you've bought cheaply.
Obviously get any agreement with the farmer on a contract that is subject to you purchasing the house.
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