Flue Liner - Wood Burning Stove

[Simpo Two]

It's not quite as simple as 'dopping it down'. Even a so-called flexible liner isn't very flexible, and most if not all chimneys have bends in them. Mine has two 45 degree bends - probably typical - and no way was the liner going round them. So it went on eBay instead.

I suspect that more than half your quote is labour and hire of scaffolding/cherry picker.

[whoami]

Autopilot said:

When I had my chimney swept, we found that we didn't have a liner fitted. Not the end of the world, but the chap gave us his mates business card and said the job required to fit one would involve scaffolding and all sorts.

How did you fit yours in 20 mins? I assume you just got on the roof, fed the liner down, clamp either end down, job done! I figured that including stopping for tea, this was about 2 hours work at the most (every job I do takes me twice as long as there's always a tool I haven't got so involves going out and buying one!)

I went on Fluesupplies.com and saw the fitting kit for about £65 and the liner would be about £200, yet all people I have ever spoken to who've had one fitted all seem to say it's over a grand to do!!

Both of the fitters who recommended a steel liner were quoting over a grand to do the job.

Oh, and one of them wanted an additional £685 for scaffolding.

[minivanman]

Possibly half an hour, including getting the ladders set up. Ladder at the end of the house, scrambled up the hip, hotched along the ridge to the chimney and clipped myself to it (wearing my climbing harness) Had the rope clipped to me as well, Dad moved the ladder to underneath me and helped push the tube up to me, dropped the rope down and it fed straight down. I was amazed myself! I got a top clamp that is a bird cage and a hanger as well so it just sits on top of the pot. The only sketchy bit was going back down the hip to the ladder. Next time I'll tie a rope to the tow bar of the van so I can belay myself back down the roof!

[Blakeatron]

When we had sour Fire originally fitted during renovations five years ago we were told we didn't need a liner.

Last Christmas the original liner died/broke/fell down and resulted in a fire.

We had to decorate top to bottom, new carpets etc and install a liner.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds then I wouldn't dare risk it again.

[Blakeatron]

When we had sour Fire originally fitted during renovations five years ago we were told we didn't need a liner.

Last Christmas the original liner died/broke/fell down and resulted in a fire.

We had to decorate top to bottom, new carpets etc and install a liner.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds then I wouldn't dare risk it again.

[Simpo Two]

Blakeatron said:

When we had sour Fire originally fitted during renovations five years ago we were told we didn't need a liner.

Last Christmas the original liner died/broke/fell down and resulted in a fire.

We had to decorate top to bottom, new carpets etc and install a liner.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds then I wouldn't dare risk it again.

So that means that - you had a liner (the original one) - which was why you were told you didn't need one - and four years later it fell to bits and started a fire...

So... had there not been a liner in the first place, perhaps you'd have been OK...? When will its replacement die/break/fall down too?

(slightly devil's advocate but you get the idea!)

[jep]

My O/H is in the same boat. She's had an engineer come in and cap off/remove the existing gas fire, and is in the process of sourcing a DEFRA approved stove. When discussing the options with the engineer, his opinion was that a liner was optional if the existing chimney drew properly and did not let any fumes out. A successful smoke test later, and his parting thought was that if the top of the stack and the pot was in good order, then crack on and get the stove fitted without a liner.

My parents' sweep also said a similar thing when asked for a quote to check and fit the stove. He asked "Have you had a smoke test, and what was the outcome?", and upon being told the results, was of the view that it wasn't necessary, but "...if you want one, then get the better quality stuff made out of 904 grade".

Contrast those responses to that of the local stove shop who were very clear that they would not fit a stove without a liner, despite the condition of the chimney/smoke test results.

[AW10]

I'm no expert on this but that won't stop me from posting...

Isn't the purpose of a liner not so much to improve the draw but to prevent the gases from cooling too much before they exit? The flue gases from a woodburner are cooler than from an open fire so prevent the cooling (and therefore condensation of moisture/tar/creosote) is the reason behind the liner?

[Snake the Sniper]

A simple smoke test is only an indication that the chimney is sound. What you need to do is pressure test the chimney, as this will show up any small cracks or leaks. These are the bits that lead to CO poisoning. A mate used to fit stoves for a living with his Dad, and the used to stuff a big rag/balloon in the chimney pot before taping a hoover into the bottom of the fireplace with a large sheet. When switched on, this would then blow air into the chimney. When you then light a smoke bomb and shove it in the hoover hose, you get a pressure smoke test. No leaks and you know you're good to go.

For the liner, bare in mind that the 904 grade is the one that can also be used with coal, as well as wood. Burning both together produces acidic gases that will eat through any liner with time, but the 904 grade is much more resistant than the 314 version.

[bigdom]

AW10 said:

I'm no expert on this but that won't stop me from posting...

Isn't the purpose of a liner not so much to improve the draw but to prevent the gases from cooling too much before they exit? The flue gases from a woodburner are cooler than from an open fire so prevent the cooling (and therefore condensation of moisture/tar/creosote) is the reason behind the liner?

The fundamental part of lining (for chimneys that require it) is to improve the draw. Running the burner at the correct operating temperature and running hot for an hour a month will negate the other issues.

The main issue with all of this is that no two chimneys are the same. Our original chimney liner wasn't fit for purpose - I saw the camera photos, so was lined. Even when lining it got stuck in a couple of places, so we had to 'break in' and free it. Over its proposed life cycle including fitting, its costing less than a takeaway each year. Luckily, we know a couple of tree surgeons, so saves us at least £300 each year in logs, overall win win.

[dickymint]

Simpo Two said:

Blakeatron said:

When we had sour Fire originally fitted during renovations five years ago we were told we didn't need a liner.

Last Christmas the original liner died/broke/fell down and resulted in a fire.

We had to decorate top to bottom, new carpets etc and install a liner.

For the sake of a few hundred pounds then I wouldn't dare risk it again.

So that means that - you had a liner (the original one) - which was why you were told you didn't need one - and four years later it fell to bits and started a fire...

So... had there not been a liner in the first place, perhaps you'd have been OK...? When will its replacement die/break/fall down too?

(slightly devil's advocate but you get the idea!)

I would hazard a guess that the original liner was for a gas fire/back boiler. These are flimsy single skin and definitely not suited to solid fuel burners.

[Simpo Two]

dickymint said:

I would hazard a guess that the original liner was for a gas fire/back boiler. These are flimsy single skin and definitely not suited to solid fuel burners.

That would make sense. So the original advice was wrong - it shoudl either have been replaced with a new, correct, one, or taken out altogether.

And that's the problem when you take someone who isn't very bright and perhaps has limited experience, then give them a one-day course and a bit of paper and call them 'qualified'.

[BFG TERRANO]

Interesting tales of fitting so far! My wife and I lined ours in about half an hour! The liner was about £400 for 8.5 metres.

We put a couple if holes in the end of it. Tied a rope through the holes. Tied a brick to the other end of the rope and dropped it down the chimney. She pulled it down inside while I was on the scaffold feeding it down.

[keslake]

I have fitted a few and it is much easier dropping the rope down and pulling the liner up than vice versa.

[guindilias]

I walked past a house yesterday which had been built without a chimney - the guy had a huge, twin-wall 904 external stack going from ground floor stove level to about 3ft above the roof ridge - that cost him way over a grand, not including fitting or the internal work or stove.
I'm sure it makes life easy for the sweep, but it looks fking hideous!

[loskie]

IIRC the void between the flexi liner and the inner chimney wall should be filled with vermiculite to insulate it and reduce any condensation.

[AndrewCrown]

W

If I were you I'd go with the liner, as others have said... it is much more likely to draw more efficiently.

My second point is one of safety, look I'm not a H&S freak.. but I don't think you should take any risks with fire, leaking chimneys are a pain... chimney fires are hideous. and horribly expensive.

and my thrid point... it is so much easier to have cleaned...

So please shell out the extra for absolute piece of mind...

Cheers
A