Rural Broadband

[petemurphy]

hi - couple of questions:

is there a way to find out where your nearest cabinet / exchange is? ( am in rural north oxfordshire )

have you any idea who these guys are using and what tech it is?:

http://www.wurzelweb.com/

from their site they are using " the biggest and first wireless ISP in the UK" - who would this be?

thanks

[RedLeicester]

Given the website keeps talking about synchronous services and distances along with the sheer cost for a basic service, one would assume direct cable connections. But then they go on to mutter about wireless.... which suggests wireless. Either way it's megamoney.

petemurphy said:

is there a way to find out where your nearest cabinet / exchange is? ( am in rural north oxfordshire )

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

[illmonkey]

This does, but not for all: https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm

[petemurphy]

RedLeicester said:

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

thks - what wireless would it be - where would it connect to?

[Scuffers]

petemurphy said:

hi - couple of questions:

is there a way to find out where your nearest cabinet / exchange is? ( am in rural north oxfordshire )

have you any idea who these guys are using and what tech it is?:

http://www.wurzelweb.com/

from their site they are using " the biggest and first wireless ISP in the UK" - who would this be?

thanks

exchange is easy, look up your phone number in one of the online ADSL checkers.

FTTC cabinets are a bit harder as they are not listed like that, however, it's not like they are invisible, go for a quick walk and look for one, if it's going to serve your house, then it's going to be within ~1Km of you, and for Rural locations, they tend to stand out like a sore-thumb.

wurzelweb looks to be point-to-point microwave.

Nothing wrong with that in theory, although can get quite expensive (they need to be licenced etc.)

the last company that tried this was Ionica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionica_%28company%29

the issues are that microwave is quite expensive to setup/maintain long term, and also needs line of sight.

[RedLeicester]

petemurphy said:

thks - what wireless would it be - where would it connect to?

Microwave wireless, either distributed or point-to-point.

[petemurphy]

Scuffers said:

exchange is easy, look up your phone number in one of the online ADSL checkers.

FTTC cabinets are a bit harder as they are not listed like that, however, it's not like they are invisible, go for a quick walk and look for one, if it's going to serve your house, then it's going to be within ~1Km of you, and for Rural locations, they tend to stand out like a sore-thumb.

wurzelweb looks to be point-to-point microwave.

Nothing wrong with that in theory, although can get quite expensive (they need to be licenced etc.)

the last company that tried this was Ionica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionica_%28company%29

the issues are that microwave is quite expensive to setup/maintain long term, and also needs line of sight.

thanks any idea who the isp they would be using is - ie are they just reselling something?

[Scuffers]

petemurphy said:

thanks any idea who the isp they would be using is - ie are they just reselling something?

my guess would be Vodaphone, but I'm guessing....

[petemurphy]

Scuffers said:

my guess would be Vodaphone, but I'm guessing....

why vodaphone? sos being dumb i dont understand where it connects to - if its some small company /bloke in a village how do they offer up to 1000mb. how are they connected to the internet? do they just have a bog standard super fast broadband connection with a mast and microwave transmitter?

[Scuffers]

petemurphy said:

Scuffers said:

my guess would be Vodaphone, but I'm guessing....

why vodaphone? sos being dumb i dont understand where it connects to - if its some small company /bloke in a village how do they offer up to 1000mb. how are they connected to the internet? do they just have a bog standard super fast broadband connection with a mast and microwave transmitter?

not sure I get your question?

Vodaphone have their own backbone network to support their mobile network, this covers all kinds of rural locations, it makes perfect sense for them to leverage this asset by selling bandwidth to others.

from there, it's a simple point-to-point microwave link to wherever. If you were going to offer said services, then you would do a deal on the tallest structure about and use that as a microwave node for the area, with luck, you may find that said structure already has a Vodafone cell site on it!

(They are also looking to launch into the mass ISP market, although it's not clear if that's via acquisition or startup at this point).

[petemurphy]

Scuffers said:

not sure I get your question?

Vodaphone have their own backbone network to support their mobile network, this covers all kinds of rural locations, it makes perfect sense for them to leverage this asset by selling bandwidth to others.

from there, it's a simple point-to-point microwave link to wherever. If you were going to offer said services, then you would do a deal on the tallest structure about and use that as a microwave node for the area, with luck, you may find that said structure already has a Vodafone cell site on it!

(They are also looking to launch into the mass ISP market, although it's not clear if that's via acquisition or startup at this point).

ah ok getting clearer! so how would you as a company tap into vodaphone's backbone? how would wurzles have done it?

[Scuffers]

petemurphy said:

ah ok getting clearer! so how would you as a company tap into vodaphone's backbone? how would wurzles have done it?

err?

Well, you go to Vodaphone and ask them where the nearest point to where you are they have sufficient network to be able to service your needs (be that 10/100/1,000/10,000Mbit).

depending on where that is (and what as in is it a building or just a tower/box/etc), you work out how to get from there to where you need the service.

Now, Vodaphone have code powers (so they could dig a cable to you), or they/you could run a microwave link (if you have a licence), or you may even choose to use BT to provide a point-to-point link.

Now, the bit you're not getting is that Vodaphone can offer a point-to-point link or, and provide a link with their ISP services on the end of it. If you are not an ISP, youre going to need one to connect to (as you need to be a member of linx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Internet_Excha...

Note.

to be an ISP is a little bit harder than just supplying connectivity, you have to provide internet services as well, from the basics like DNS to mail relaying services etc.

[petemurphy]

Scuffers said:

err?

Well, you go to Vodaphone and ask them where the nearest point to where you are they have sufficient network to be able to service your needs (be that 10/100/1,000/10,000Mbit).

depending on where that is (and what as in is it a building or just a tower/box/etc), you work out how to get from there to where you need the service.

Now, Vodaphone have code powers (so they could dig a cable to you), or they/you could run a microwave link (if you have a licence), or you may even choose to use BT to provide a point-to-point link.

Now, the bit you're not getting is that Vodaphone can offer a point-to-point link or, and provide a link with their ISP services on the end of it. If you are not an ISP, youre going to need one to connect to (as you need to be a member of linx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Internet_Excha...

thanks - im getting there...

so could anyone ask a mobile phone provider for access to their network from one of their masts? would wurzels have seen a tower near them and gone to vodaphone or whoever and just negotiated bandwidth for them to use and then for them to resell?

eg we have ste broadband here but do have a mobile mast. is it possible to tap into that if we were to ask the mobile provider? ( theoretically )

[Scuffers]

petemurphy said:

thanks - im getting there...

so could anyone ask a mobile phone provider for access to their network from one of their masts? would wurzels have seen a tower near them and gone to vodaphone or whoever and just negotiated bandwidth for them to use and then for them to resell?

eg we have ste broadband here but do have a mobile mast. is it possible to tap into that if we were to ask the mobile provider? ( theoretically )

in theory, yes you could ask.

in practice, I suspect the answer would be sod-off, it would be only viable for a commercial scale service, as it requires significant investment to 'tap in' as you put it.

other point is that the vast majority of cell sites have pretty restricted network access (most are still only 2G and will have <=2M backhaul), so you would need to find one with significant links (ie, BSS/BCS level).

even then most will not have 1Gbit+ connectivity unless your custom is sufficient to justify it.

this is much the same as it is with any telecom co., BT would be happy to run 1Gbit fibre to you, the issue is you won't want to pay for it.

[petemurphy]

thanks interesting

[dotty]

Scuffers said:

exchange is easy, look up your phone number in one of the online ADSL checkers.

FTTC cabinets are a bit harder as they are not listed like that, however, it's not like they are invisible, go for a quick walk and look for one, if it's going to serve your house, then it's going to be within ~1Km of you, and for Rural locations, they tend to stand out like a sore-thumb.

wurzelweb looks to be point-to-point microwave.

Nothing wrong with that in theory, although can get quite expensive (they need to be licenced etc.)

the last company that tried this was Ionica http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionica_%28company%29

the issues are that microwave is quite expensive to setup/maintain long term, and also needs line of sight.

Hi,

It is not always the case that the cabinet you may think (as it is nearest to your house) is the one that feeds your house, also regarding the 1km distance, while that is generally true, I was working on a line last week which had a 6km run from the cab to the property.. and another 4.2km from the exchange to the cab (10.2km in total) and they were scraping a 2mb connection but that is considered good for that distance.

[dotty]

Also worth noting on long runs like that is that they can sometimes run through a second cabinet known as a SCP (secondary connection point) the main cabinet being a PCP (primary connection point) SCP's can be the size of a normal cabinet or slightly smaller, or they can be a little pillar/post type object which is always a barrel of laughs trying to locate if you are working out of area, they can also be underground.. roll of the dice as an engineer, I was trying to find one late last year and it only became visible when I got my sheers out and started hacking away at a bush, the records indicated I was on top of it but it was not visible until the hedges got a hair cut, SCP's are rarely entered as 9/10 the line will go through them OK. Off the top of my head there is an SCP off the Hartley Witney Exchange which links and feeds Winchfield, and also Medstead near Alton if anyone knows the areas.

You will know if your cabinet is fibre enabled as there will be a dslam located close by your cabinet, which looks like a normal green cabinet but slightly taller, if you see one of those being put in situ then you know fibre is coming your way... ut don't get confused with Virgin media cabinets which look the same, I am sure google will bring up pictures of BT cabinets and Dslam cabs respectively .

Edited by dotty on Monday 16th March 19:40

[Scuffers]

dotty said:

Hi,

It is not always the case that the cabinet you may think (as it is nearest to your house) is the one that feeds your house, also regarding the 1km distance, while that is generally true, I was working on a line last week which had a 6km run from the cab to the property.. and another 4.2km from the exchange to the cab (10.2km in total) and they were scraping a 2mb connection but that is considered good for that distance.

Kind of, but that's ADSL, VDSL (as in fttp, bt infinity, or whatever), its feed directly from the roadside cabinet, its irrelevant how far from the exchange this is.

Usually, the fttc cab is suited next to the old distribution cab, as that's where the distribution multicores are.

[oilydan]

We have had some minor works nearby with BT vans and lifted manholes etc recently. Could they be running a fibre? Currently in Rural Devon, just outside Tiverton with only up to 1Mbps connection available to date and would love it if this was the fast pipe being delivered!!

[Scuffers]

just as an update (and a late one at that!) Openreach finally finished install and opened it up to the ISP's..

went from this:



To this: