Home Automation - Mainstream price point & functionality?
Discussion
Initial LightwaveRF review here - was not happy last week, but managed to get it set up and working:
I have installed the first part of the LightwaveRF heating control system, which comprises of their Wifi Link (hub), boiler switch and main thermostat.
At some point soon, I will be adding wireless TRVs (all controlled by using the app and Link) to build zones: this is really why I bought it as it allows me to only heat bits of the house on occasion – important as OH works from home much of the time, and she can then just set an “event” where only the bits of our house that she needs are heated.
System Pros.
- Pretty reasonable pricing – I got boiler switch, therm and app for about £60 each.
- Physical installation simple – boiler wiring is easy, and the therm is battery powered, so no wiring issues. Means you can also move it around the house to find the best spot for it
- Nicely made – while the kit is a bit ugly, it seems to have decent build quality
- A lot of compatible kit – readily available individual room thermostats, TRVs, sockets, light switches etc.
System Cons
- Thermostat looks really boring compared to a Nest or similar
- Setup. The instructions are rubbish, and you need to mess around on help forums to work out why your app isn’t controlling the therm properly etc
- App is clunky. No fast override buttons for heating etc. That said, you can set up “events” Which can pretty much do whatever you want to whatever Lightwave controls, so this won’t be a problem. But no standard “heating on/heating off override or boost function. Interestingly, the therm and boiler switch do have these, so when at home it’s easier to go and flick a switch for a couple of hours’ heat than do it on the standard app. Also, you have to upload your new settings to the server, and then download them to the Link in your home. Takes no time, but two useless extra steps which should simply happen when you hit the “save settings” button. And not explained anywhere in setup instructions, so you spend ages wondering why your tablet isn’t actually talking to your home, despite you hitting the “save settings” button.
- Mostly battery powered. While the app does warn you when a device needs new batteries, you will be having to change them, and I think up to annually in the therm and TRVs.
- Support is poor. Helpdesk mailed a week ago, never heard back from them. This will be a big problem for users if not rectified. Support forums are OK, though and obviously improving (it’s how I found out about the upload/download thing)
Conclusion
- cheap way of setting up zoned heating system, which is great...
- ...but the moment someone invents room based TRVs that link with Nest or whatever, that will make a more compelling ownership prospect
- possibly advantage for automating light switches and sockets on same system as the heating
- app could use some work.
Will report back in spring after we’ve used it a bit more.
I have installed the first part of the LightwaveRF heating control system, which comprises of their Wifi Link (hub), boiler switch and main thermostat.
At some point soon, I will be adding wireless TRVs (all controlled by using the app and Link) to build zones: this is really why I bought it as it allows me to only heat bits of the house on occasion – important as OH works from home much of the time, and she can then just set an “event” where only the bits of our house that she needs are heated.
System Pros.
- Pretty reasonable pricing – I got boiler switch, therm and app for about £60 each.
- Physical installation simple – boiler wiring is easy, and the therm is battery powered, so no wiring issues. Means you can also move it around the house to find the best spot for it
- Nicely made – while the kit is a bit ugly, it seems to have decent build quality
- A lot of compatible kit – readily available individual room thermostats, TRVs, sockets, light switches etc.
System Cons
- Thermostat looks really boring compared to a Nest or similar
- Setup. The instructions are rubbish, and you need to mess around on help forums to work out why your app isn’t controlling the therm properly etc
- App is clunky. No fast override buttons for heating etc. That said, you can set up “events” Which can pretty much do whatever you want to whatever Lightwave controls, so this won’t be a problem. But no standard “heating on/heating off override or boost function. Interestingly, the therm and boiler switch do have these, so when at home it’s easier to go and flick a switch for a couple of hours’ heat than do it on the standard app. Also, you have to upload your new settings to the server, and then download them to the Link in your home. Takes no time, but two useless extra steps which should simply happen when you hit the “save settings” button. And not explained anywhere in setup instructions, so you spend ages wondering why your tablet isn’t actually talking to your home, despite you hitting the “save settings” button.
- Mostly battery powered. While the app does warn you when a device needs new batteries, you will be having to change them, and I think up to annually in the therm and TRVs.
- Support is poor. Helpdesk mailed a week ago, never heard back from them. This will be a big problem for users if not rectified. Support forums are OK, though and obviously improving (it’s how I found out about the upload/download thing)
Conclusion
- cheap way of setting up zoned heating system, which is great...
- ...but the moment someone invents room based TRVs that link with Nest or whatever, that will make a more compelling ownership prospect
- possibly advantage for automating light switches and sockets on same system as the heating
- app could use some work.
Will report back in spring after we’ve used it a bit more.
On this point, I also wanted an affordable plug and play option and have so far set up 2 lightwave sockets and a tripple dimmer in the lounge. My impressinos are that the switches look great, work perfectly and do all I wanted, which was basically turning stuff on and off from the couch and being able to set up moods. Its affordable, plug and play and works perfectly for what I want.
On the heating side, I am likely to go for a Honeywell Evohome setup as, like my Sonos, it just seems perfectly built for purpose.
I'd give the lightwave stuff a shot for 2 reasons. 1, its affordable and works. 2, see just how much automation you really want or use after a few weeks before lashing out on expensive kit...
Just my 2c
On the heating side, I am likely to go for a Honeywell Evohome setup as, like my Sonos, it just seems perfectly built for purpose.
I'd give the lightwave stuff a shot for 2 reasons. 1, its affordable and works. 2, see just how much automation you really want or use after a few weeks before lashing out on expensive kit...
Just my 2c
MuffDaddy said:
How about a very simple one. A moisture sensor that alerts you of leaks in the kitchen meaning the damage caused is far less.
In theory great but surely only of use if you are actually in the house so that you can rush and switch off the water supply?MuffDaddy said:
Or your heating turning on via go fence/outside temp. You get within 1km of the home and it's brass monkeys so the heating comes on.
MuffDaddy said:
Have a porch? Why not allow Amazon a one time only access to leave parcels.
Depends on what door you have - currently impossible if you have some form of PVC or composite door, with the locking mechanism integral to it's structure.I have a Control4 system myself but TBH it's really only for lighting and media distribution purposes. Unfortunately they don't have any of their power outlets available outside of the US so I am looking into a few LightwaveRF sockets, which can then be controlled via the Z-wave protocol using something like the Micasaverde Vera range of controllers (which can then subsequently be hooked into C4 with an Extravegetables driver. Not exactly straightforward though!
Edited by alfa aficionado on Saturday 21st February 11:18
This is an interesting thread.. are there any updated opinions on this technology?
To give you context I am halfway through a self build and can't resist the lure of some HA. I started looking at Loxone, have been recommended Control4, Lutron, HDL, LightwaveRF.... and the more I learn the more I realise I don't know about this stuff at all.
I have tried to boil my wish list down to the essentials:
Lighting Control: I would like scene lighting, the ability to turn "all off" from one place, to pretend to be at home when I'm not, and to have the lights in the little boys room come on a bit dimmer in the middle of the night. Ideally I would like as many circuits as possible to be dimmable (c. 60 circuits) although i could live with only 10 of them dimmable. So a system that doesn't cost an arm and leg for each dimmable circuit would be nice. It would be good if it worked easily with mains dimmable light fittings. I want it to be robust, simple to use and not to have to have naff control units on the wall in each room.
Distributed Audio - Basically Sonos, that works nicely in tandem with my morning alarm or my burglar alarm
UFH Control - I would like to have nest functionality without having to have a giant thermostat on the wall in each zone. (17 Zones). Ideally a temp sensor hidden away somewhere (like Loxone's hidden in switches) and one central app that you can open to adjust settings, timings etc)
Blind Control - to work in tandem with the heating and lighting (temp too high in summer = lower blind) // pitch black outside in winter + lights on = close blind)
Some presence detection functionality for lights / music / blinds ?!
Burglar Alarm / Garage Door control / Gate control / CCTV are all things it would be nice to integrate
Loxone looks like the best solution for heating but overall the restriction to Loxone kit only is a bit of a turn off
Control 4 looks the best for generally working with any other technology that might come along
HDL looks good for lighting control, not seen much talk of it though
Lutron looks expensive
LightwaveRF looks great if you are retrofitting but less relevant for a new build
Apple / SmartThings / WorksWithNest // Philips Hue all look like they have some potential but when starting from the ground up to put the technology in throughout a property seems prohibitively expensive versus Control4/Loxone/HDL route.
Rako - is this any good?
Bit of a brain dump there... Hoping that by bumping the thread people may have some updated opinions on any of the above.
Cheers in advance, KliveDrgar
To give you context I am halfway through a self build and can't resist the lure of some HA. I started looking at Loxone, have been recommended Control4, Lutron, HDL, LightwaveRF.... and the more I learn the more I realise I don't know about this stuff at all.
I have tried to boil my wish list down to the essentials:
Lighting Control: I would like scene lighting, the ability to turn "all off" from one place, to pretend to be at home when I'm not, and to have the lights in the little boys room come on a bit dimmer in the middle of the night. Ideally I would like as many circuits as possible to be dimmable (c. 60 circuits) although i could live with only 10 of them dimmable. So a system that doesn't cost an arm and leg for each dimmable circuit would be nice. It would be good if it worked easily with mains dimmable light fittings. I want it to be robust, simple to use and not to have to have naff control units on the wall in each room.
Distributed Audio - Basically Sonos, that works nicely in tandem with my morning alarm or my burglar alarm
UFH Control - I would like to have nest functionality without having to have a giant thermostat on the wall in each zone. (17 Zones). Ideally a temp sensor hidden away somewhere (like Loxone's hidden in switches) and one central app that you can open to adjust settings, timings etc)
Blind Control - to work in tandem with the heating and lighting (temp too high in summer = lower blind) // pitch black outside in winter + lights on = close blind)
Some presence detection functionality for lights / music / blinds ?!
Burglar Alarm / Garage Door control / Gate control / CCTV are all things it would be nice to integrate
Loxone looks like the best solution for heating but overall the restriction to Loxone kit only is a bit of a turn off
Control 4 looks the best for generally working with any other technology that might come along
HDL looks good for lighting control, not seen much talk of it though
Lutron looks expensive
LightwaveRF looks great if you are retrofitting but less relevant for a new build
Apple / SmartThings / WorksWithNest // Philips Hue all look like they have some potential but when starting from the ground up to put the technology in throughout a property seems prohibitively expensive versus Control4/Loxone/HDL route.
Rako - is this any good?
Bit of a brain dump there... Hoping that by bumping the thread people may have some updated opinions on any of the above.
Cheers in advance, KliveDrgar
Avoid z-wave battery powered pir sensors for presence detection - they only update every few minutes to save the battery.
I hard wire everything possible - which is far easier on a new build.
One tip for the lighting is to rin each light fitting to the room light switch and then home run back to a central point, then you are free to use any systen you like - starting with a conventional setup if you want for ease of sign off.
I hard wire everything possible - which is far easier on a new build.
One tip for the lighting is to rin each light fitting to the room light switch and then home run back to a central point, then you are free to use any systen you like - starting with a conventional setup if you want for ease of sign off.
Edited by eliot on Monday 21st November 23:50
LightwaveRF for lights and sockets. Used to be a bit gash but App updates on iOS have made it how it should have been from the start, no issues now, works a treat, no problem recommending it to anyone to control lights and sockets.
Central Heating control using Tado. Little solar panel on the room temperature sensor can't keep it's battery charged through the winter so needs a USB cable plugging in for 24 hours once every couple of months otherwise it's faultless. Highly recommended.
Electric Floor Heating (never used except the bathroom) WarmUP wifi connected/touch screen thermostats.
Music, Sonos using pairs of Play 1's in the bedrooms, Connect Amps and ceiling speakers in the kitchen and bathroom, Connect Amp and outdoor speakers for the roof terrace, Connect and big AV Amp and 5.1 speaker system for TV and music in the front room. NAS is unplugged as I found it redundant after paying for Spotify.
Nest smoke/Carbon Monoxide detector in the kitchen.
I realise all this stuff is controlled from a lot of apps rather than a single controller like Crestron or whatever but it was all as cheap as chips, I installed it all and its all supported by regular updates to the Apps. LightwaveRF and Tado Central heating just got Amazon Echo integration for example. One of my neighbours have a very expensive looking 19 inch rack in their basement and extremely dated looking controllers mounted on their walls all over the place and it only does what mine does, cost ten times more and they have to have a support contract with someone to look after it all because they have no idea.
Rather than get one App/system to do everything I have chosen what I consider the best at their speciality and gone with that. LightwaveRF heating control looks a bit of a lash up to me whereas Tado are at the top of the heating control game.
Central Heating control using Tado. Little solar panel on the room temperature sensor can't keep it's battery charged through the winter so needs a USB cable plugging in for 24 hours once every couple of months otherwise it's faultless. Highly recommended.
Electric Floor Heating (never used except the bathroom) WarmUP wifi connected/touch screen thermostats.
Music, Sonos using pairs of Play 1's in the bedrooms, Connect Amps and ceiling speakers in the kitchen and bathroom, Connect Amp and outdoor speakers for the roof terrace, Connect and big AV Amp and 5.1 speaker system for TV and music in the front room. NAS is unplugged as I found it redundant after paying for Spotify.
Nest smoke/Carbon Monoxide detector in the kitchen.
I realise all this stuff is controlled from a lot of apps rather than a single controller like Crestron or whatever but it was all as cheap as chips, I installed it all and its all supported by regular updates to the Apps. LightwaveRF and Tado Central heating just got Amazon Echo integration for example. One of my neighbours have a very expensive looking 19 inch rack in their basement and extremely dated looking controllers mounted on their walls all over the place and it only does what mine does, cost ten times more and they have to have a support contract with someone to look after it all because they have no idea.
Rather than get one App/system to do everything I have chosen what I consider the best at their speciality and gone with that. LightwaveRF heating control looks a bit of a lash up to me whereas Tado are at the top of the heating control game.
Thought i would jump in
I looked long and hard, i even prepared my house for a Loxone install. Cat6 to every light switch and electrics installed to their requirement.
In the end i went for z-wave devices. Why? down to cost.
I have a decent set up which i have added to over the last 2 years.
Battery devices do have a little bit more maintenance and most of mine still havent had any batteries replaced over 2 years. It also means i can add and change locations with ease. Parameters can be edited on devices to update polling and other fuctions. But if you wanted PIRs to act as an alarm, i would consider installing a genuine alarm system.
Alarm systems have plugins for HA so can be easily monitored.
My system consits of:
1 Vera edge gateway box
6 x fibaro motion sensors
5 x fibaro dual relays
6 x fibaro dimmers
1 x aeon labs recessed sensor
1 x ip2ir
2 x tbk home plug
The devices are only half the fun, MiOs which owns the vera device range has a great online community. PLEG (Program Logic Equation Generator, i think thats what is stands for) helps users create simple or complex scripts.
An example of some scripts i have:
Home/Away settings
If both my wife and i are out of the house and pass a geofense, the house is set to AWAY arming the PIR's
Garage door alarm
If the garage is left open for 10 mins or more, we get an alert
External lights
All my external lights come on a system managed "sunset" time and turn off at 23:00
Holiday settings
If we are on holiday lights are scripted to mimic us being there
Motion Light
Several lights come on if motion is detected but will turn off after 5min once motion has stopped being detected.
Lounge Lamps
If the lounge TV turns on and the system is in night mode, the lamps dim to 25%, when the tv turns off, the lamps ramp up to 100%
Then throw in Imperihome for android users and you get slick interfaces on devices.
The main dislike i have is the vera software is somewhat prone to bugs. The online community is very helpful though at troubleshooting.
Lighting Control: I would like scene lighting, the ability to turn "all off" from one place, to pretend to be at home when I'm not, and to have the lights in the little boys room come on a bit dimmer in the middle of the night. Ideally I would like as many circuits as possible to be dimmable (c. 60 circuits) although i could live with only 10 of them dimmable. So a system that doesn't cost an arm and leg for each dimmable circuit would be nice. It would be good if it worked easily with mains dimmable light fittings. I want it to be robust, simple to use and not to have to have naff control units on the wall in each room.
I use the "All off" script to turn all lights off at night, i also have an alarm feature which makes all the lights flash if the alarm is triggered
Distributed Audio - Basically Sonos, that works nicely in tandem with my morning alarm or my burglar alarm
There is a sonos plugin to distribute alarms and pre scripted messages
UFH Control - I would like to have nest functionality without having to have a giant thermostat on the wall in each zone. (17 Zones). Ideally a temp sensor hidden away somewhere (like Loxone's hidden in switches) and one central app that you can open to adjust settings, timings etc)
You can have z-wave thermostats or hidden thermostate modules. I decided to leave the standard UFH thermostats as they are preset and we dont change the temperate at all throughout the year. Maybe we should have used the Qubino in-wall thermostat modules.
Blind Control - to work in tandem with the heating and lighting (temp too high in summer = lower blind) // pitch black outside in winter + lights on = close blind)
There is a somfy plugin or you can normally use the contacts of devices with roller modules by fibaro and alike
Some presence detection functionality for lights / music / blinds ?!
This can be achieved
Burglar Alarm / Garage Door control / Gate control / CCTV are all things it would be nice to integrate
I integrated my CCTV and garage control
Hope this helps
I looked long and hard, i even prepared my house for a Loxone install. Cat6 to every light switch and electrics installed to their requirement.
In the end i went for z-wave devices. Why? down to cost.
I have a decent set up which i have added to over the last 2 years.
Battery devices do have a little bit more maintenance and most of mine still havent had any batteries replaced over 2 years. It also means i can add and change locations with ease. Parameters can be edited on devices to update polling and other fuctions. But if you wanted PIRs to act as an alarm, i would consider installing a genuine alarm system.
Alarm systems have plugins for HA so can be easily monitored.
My system consits of:
1 Vera edge gateway box
6 x fibaro motion sensors
5 x fibaro dual relays
6 x fibaro dimmers
1 x aeon labs recessed sensor
1 x ip2ir
2 x tbk home plug
The devices are only half the fun, MiOs which owns the vera device range has a great online community. PLEG (Program Logic Equation Generator, i think thats what is stands for) helps users create simple or complex scripts.
An example of some scripts i have:
Home/Away settings
If both my wife and i are out of the house and pass a geofense, the house is set to AWAY arming the PIR's
Garage door alarm
If the garage is left open for 10 mins or more, we get an alert
External lights
All my external lights come on a system managed "sunset" time and turn off at 23:00
Holiday settings
If we are on holiday lights are scripted to mimic us being there
Motion Light
Several lights come on if motion is detected but will turn off after 5min once motion has stopped being detected.
Lounge Lamps
If the lounge TV turns on and the system is in night mode, the lamps dim to 25%, when the tv turns off, the lamps ramp up to 100%
Then throw in Imperihome for android users and you get slick interfaces on devices.
The main dislike i have is the vera software is somewhat prone to bugs. The online community is very helpful though at troubleshooting.
Lighting Control: I would like scene lighting, the ability to turn "all off" from one place, to pretend to be at home when I'm not, and to have the lights in the little boys room come on a bit dimmer in the middle of the night. Ideally I would like as many circuits as possible to be dimmable (c. 60 circuits) although i could live with only 10 of them dimmable. So a system that doesn't cost an arm and leg for each dimmable circuit would be nice. It would be good if it worked easily with mains dimmable light fittings. I want it to be robust, simple to use and not to have to have naff control units on the wall in each room.
I use the "All off" script to turn all lights off at night, i also have an alarm feature which makes all the lights flash if the alarm is triggered
Distributed Audio - Basically Sonos, that works nicely in tandem with my morning alarm or my burglar alarm
There is a sonos plugin to distribute alarms and pre scripted messages
UFH Control - I would like to have nest functionality without having to have a giant thermostat on the wall in each zone. (17 Zones). Ideally a temp sensor hidden away somewhere (like Loxone's hidden in switches) and one central app that you can open to adjust settings, timings etc)
You can have z-wave thermostats or hidden thermostate modules. I decided to leave the standard UFH thermostats as they are preset and we dont change the temperate at all throughout the year. Maybe we should have used the Qubino in-wall thermostat modules.
Blind Control - to work in tandem with the heating and lighting (temp too high in summer = lower blind) // pitch black outside in winter + lights on = close blind)
There is a somfy plugin or you can normally use the contacts of devices with roller modules by fibaro and alike
Some presence detection functionality for lights / music / blinds ?!
This can be achieved
Burglar Alarm / Garage Door control / Gate control / CCTV are all things it would be nice to integrate
I integrated my CCTV and garage control
Hope this helps
Edited by Too Late on Tuesday 22 November 13:33
To the OP
A fascinating (to me!) and interesting propostion
I simply do not understand why the high end stuff is so expensive I think it's just because they can get away with it ala Cisco and like the CCTV industry seem stuck in a time warp
Apple is a non starter, people will not use it because of the name but much more than that we need a war and by that I mean standards, it's a complete and utter mess ATM. What's needed is a standard like Ethernet with the IEEE in control.
The industry and consumers need some abstraction in the middle layers - until that happens the market will remain a fragmented mess
A fascinating (to me!) and interesting propostion
I simply do not understand why the high end stuff is so expensive I think it's just because they can get away with it ala Cisco and like the CCTV industry seem stuck in a time warp
Apple is a non starter, people will not use it because of the name but much more than that we need a war and by that I mean standards, it's a complete and utter mess ATM. What's needed is a standard like Ethernet with the IEEE in control.
The industry and consumers need some abstraction in the middle layers - until that happens the market will remain a fragmented mess
That's the thing with standards, there's so many to choose from.
Cheap, effective consumer grade options exist today. No it's not the integrated utopia it could be but it all works. If I decide my smart thermostat (or whatever) is no longer meeting my needs I'll change it. I'll be £200 poorer but I'm ok with that for the convenience it's given me over the past three years.
Cheap, effective consumer grade options exist today. No it's not the integrated utopia it could be but it all works. If I decide my smart thermostat (or whatever) is no longer meeting my needs I'll change it. I'll be £200 poorer but I'm ok with that for the convenience it's given me over the past three years.
interesting thread.
Heating: I have Honeywell EvoHome for zoned control (linked to iphone and remote display in hall)
Audio: Sonos
Lights: Philips Hue linked to Siri for voice on the wall mounted ipads and iphone for remote control
the Hue is expensive at 45quid a bulb - but the UI is great and Siri works well.
I'm very much an Apple house so homekit linking is important.
Heating: I have Honeywell EvoHome for zoned control (linked to iphone and remote display in hall)
Audio: Sonos
Lights: Philips Hue linked to Siri for voice on the wall mounted ipads and iphone for remote control
the Hue is expensive at 45quid a bulb - but the UI is great and Siri works well.
I'm very much an Apple house so homekit linking is important.
blueg33 said:
Toxicnerve, do you supply systems of adaptive technology for disabled and elderly? If you do, would you mind if I PM you? We develop properties for the disabled and I am interested in expanding and developing the adaptive tech we use.
Not sure Toxic does anymore, but I have played with lots of ideas for the disabled and elderly market, main stream stuff with the right perspective on it can be amazing. Happy to talk it through any time.
V.
klivedrgar said:
This is an interesting thread.........
This is mainly about control and there are two directions you can take, both of which are valid. The first approach is the 'best of breed' approach, where you pick and choose the different systems you like, to perform the different processes and funtcions throughout the propertyl, then either live with a different app for each 'system' all within a single folder on your phone/tablet of choice, or apply a control layer above the different systems to interact with and share info, triggers, events etc. This has the additional advantage where if any one of the systems/functions fails it doesnt take the other systems with it. You also have the advantage of mixing and matching systems that you like.
The more traditional, high end approach (although becoming more mainstream with the likes of Loxone and HDL) is the all in one system, single controllers, room keypads and apps from which the whole house can be controlled. No control layer over the top of everything as it is built in from the off. Crestron is a master in this field, Control4 are a very credible rival and both Loxone and HDL are bring it into the budget of mainstream.
This should make more sense as you read on.
klivedrgar said:
Lighting Control: I would like scene lighting, the ability to turn "all off" from one place, to pretend to be at home when I'm not, and to have the lights in the little boys room come on a bit dimmer in the middle of the night. Ideally I would like as many circuits as possible to be dimmable (c. 60 circuits) although i could live with only 10 of them dimmable. So a system that doesn't cost an arm and leg for each dimmable circuit would be nice. It would be good if it worked easily with mains dimmable light fittings. I want it to be robust, simple to use and not to have to have naff control units on the wall in each room.
So there are a number of different ways you could do this, all of which are capable of what you require. However it is how they wire that would be the driver for this. The higher end systems, Lutron, Crestron, Control4, Rako's RAK4, Mode, Helvar, HDL, Loxone (wired) and on and on and on, all wire in star configuration, so all the individual ciruit cables run back to a main hub or floor hub and this is where the dimmer packs will be located. Each keypad / controller is also wired back to the same location (either on individual cables or daisy-chained on a loop). Then the main brain is programmed with relationships between the controller/keypad buttons and the circuits they are to control and like magic you can have the bathroom light switch controlling the kitchen lights or any other weird combination you desire.
Then you have the retro-fit designed systems like Fibaro, Rako Wireless, Loxone Air and I think Creston Ping and C4 have an offering as well now. These are designed to be fitted into an existing lighting and more importantly wiring scheme, and some fair better than others when it comes to controlling LED's. But the big advantage is that you dont need to commit to a whole house system now but can build your solution over time as budget and desire requires. I use and have Rako here at home and like it alot, the macros and events you can run make the wireless systems very powerful and easy to pair with a security alarm triggers or visitors coming down the drive.
klivedrgar said:
Distributed Audio - Basically Sonos, that works nicely in tandem with my morning alarm or my burglar alarm
Yep, can't disagree with you. Especially as so many control layer systems can now integrate with it
klivedrgar said:
UFH Control - I would like to have nest functionality without having to have a giant thermostat on the wall in each zone. (17 Zones). Ideally a temp sensor hidden away somewhere (like Loxone's hidden in switches) and one central app that you can open to adjust settings, timings etc)
Again this depends on who's control system you like or want. The Loxone idea is nice and the same as HDL's with the temp detector built into the keypad, although HDL have some far more functional keypad / controllers that will also display room and target temps etc. If you are looking at a standalone system that then feeds a control platform, look at Tado & Honeywell Evohome who both have UHF and TRV controllers.
klivedrgar said:
Blind Control - to work in tandem with the heating and lighting (temp too high in summer = lower blind) // pitch black outside in winter + lights on = close blind)
This tends to be the control systems functionality, rather than tech in the blind, ie, if the lighting system / control system knows what time dawn and dusk is then it can trigger lights and shades (blinds & curtains) very easily. Look at SilentGliss, Goest, QMotion and Somfy as motor systems. Some are better than others and use stepper motors so the system knows where they are. This will allow it to line up all the blinds in a room, to an exact point rather then hitting its start or stop points and grinding to a stop.
klivedrgar said:
Some presence detection functionality for lights / music / blinds ?!
Most systems or control layers can do this very easily, only letting something happen when there is presence in the room, turning stuff off 5 minutes after the room has emptied and no-one has returned.
klivedrgar said:
Burglar Alarm / Garage Door control / Gate control / CCTV are all things it would be nice to integrate
Alarms we tend to recommend clients to use a proper alarm company, some control systems offer an alarm function, but I feel it is better to keep it standalone and just take triggers/info from it. For example, if the alarm is set to away mode, then the control system can start tunring lights on and off, closing curtains and even turning music on and off to simulate occupancy. Or if the Fire Alarm goes off, flash all the lights in the rooms and light the emergency path out of the building.
Garage Control, Gate Control & CCTV can be integrated as well. Modern IP based CCTV system can now trigger alarms and control systems if a virtual trip wire is crossed or something of a predefined size enters or leaves an area. IP Door Entry can call you phone if you are away and you can still answer it and open gates / doors / garages etc.
klivedrgar said:
Loxone looks like the best solution for heating but overall the restriction to Loxone kit only is a bit of a turn off
Control 4 looks the best for generally working with any other technology that might come along
HDL looks good for lighting control, not seen much talk of it though
Lutron looks expensive
LightwaveRF looks great if you are retrofitting but less relevant for a new build
Apple / SmartThings / WorksWithNest // Philips Hue all look like they have some potential but when starting from the ground up to put the technology in throughout a property seems prohibitively expensive versus Control4/Loxone/HDL route.
Rako - is this any good?
Loxone is good at the budget / main stream end and has good functionality, but personally the keypads and interfaces are limiting as you have noted. Control 4 looks the best for generally working with any other technology that might come along
HDL looks good for lighting control, not seen much talk of it though
Lutron looks expensive
LightwaveRF looks great if you are retrofitting but less relevant for a new build
Apple / SmartThings / WorksWithNest // Philips Hue all look like they have some potential but when starting from the ground up to put the technology in throughout a property seems prohibitively expensive versus Control4/Loxone/HDL route.
Rako - is this any good?
Control4 is a very credible rival to Crestron, but it was primarily an AV focused system that has evolved into a house control system, I am not sure hpow well it crosses to control lighting, heating etc. There are some very good 'apps/drivers' to control 3rd party hardware.
HDL is a relative new kid on the block, but incredebly flexable and functional and I love the range of keypads you can have with them. The lcd display versions can scroll through multiple pages, giving lots of different controls from a single keypad. Although new here in the uk, they have some very large, kudos projects including hotels, BMW HQ's and have just signed to do a new EU Govenment building from memory.
Lutron is expencive and really only lighting and shades, but it just works all day everyday with very little hick up.
Lightwave had/has a very poor rep and start in life, it seems to be getting better, but in my view very DIY focued.
Apple / SmartThings / WorksWithNest / Philips Hue - Good and great fun to play with, but I have yet to be convinced of its use in anything other than the DIY / Hobby market, especially if you want to break away from the norm and try to get it to play nicely with others.
Rako, (personally) great, but again only really lighting and shades, can easily be set up to accept triggers from others, but needs a control layer to get it to truly integrate out to other systems
Don't discount the control layer only stuff either, URC, RTI and Demopad all have control layer systems that happily integrate and work with the other house systems, even Control4 and Creston can offer this as a solution.
Also you havent discussed Video distribution or media rooms.
Bit of a brain dump here to, but hope that it helps you make sense of it a little more.
V.
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