Home Automation - Mainstream price point & functionality?
Discussion
If you have the budget & want a proper job listen to Vex, from my recently learned experience on all things home automation he's right on the money.
The guys I'm using have recommended going exactly the same route for full flexibility & control linked into a proper ADT alarm system covering the house plus two garage buildings all taking triggers in & out to the automation for controlled lighting & blinds / sound from speakers throughout via ceiling speakers etc in the event of an activation.
Just hope it all works as described when they've finished commissioning it!
The guys I'm using have recommended going exactly the same route for full flexibility & control linked into a proper ADT alarm system covering the house plus two garage buildings all taking triggers in & out to the automation for controlled lighting & blinds / sound from speakers throughout via ceiling speakers etc in the event of an activation.
Just hope it all works as described when they've finished commissioning it!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
There is a lot choice of equipment to use, however there is also the right equipment to use, Control4 for example if you can stick to devices that are in the driver tree it will save time, Certainly opting for a Home Cinema Amp with network drivers is a plus.
Then of course as said is the quality of your programmer, and then suggesting the product, i have specced systems I can't program as the ones I do are not suitable for their application. Didn't make as much money but kept a client happy.
chasingracecars said:
Excellent Vex, couldn't agree more with your sentiments there!
The only bit which jumps out at me is the Control 4 being a rival for Crestron. It isn't - no where near as much customisation or flexibility is possible with Control 4 and it isn't as scalable for large jobs.Personally I think Control 4 peaked a few years ago and is now having its market share eaten in to by Savant. Which is less flexible than Crestron but has a great interface. We just don't get asked about Control 4 nowadays.
Also - the guys integrating security - when we looked at this the insurance and police would not accept setting and unsetting of the alarm. We therefore read from the security system but use the manufacturer keypads / fobs for setting and unsetting. Is this what you experienced?
Edited by NorthDave on Wednesday 23 November 09:50
I wouldn't say that Crestron and Control4 are on par! They are not by a long way, customised gui on Crestron is one thing but the ability to write your own code is huge.
I personally feel with the right programming Control4 is almost as good at Home Automation as Crestron, however the bigger the install the more likely I am to spec Crestron.
Yes there are great things about Savant, I love the fact that a separate GUI can be configured by the user on the iPad. Great to limit the mother in law from just using the TV and not the blinds, lights and heating.
I tend to stick to Crestron, Control4 and Savant otherwise it just becomes a mine field of different kit on installs.
I personally feel with the right programming Control4 is almost as good at Home Automation as Crestron, however the bigger the install the more likely I am to spec Crestron.
Yes there are great things about Savant, I love the fact that a separate GUI can be configured by the user on the iPad. Great to limit the mother in law from just using the TV and not the blinds, lights and heating.
I tend to stick to Crestron, Control4 and Savant otherwise it just becomes a mine field of different kit on installs.
PinkFatBunny said:
interesting thread.
Heating: I have Honeywell EvoHome for zoned control (linked to iphone and remote display in hall)
Audio: Sonos
Lights: Philips Hue linked to Siri for voice on the wall mounted ipads and iphone for remote control
the Hue is expensive at 45quid a bulb - but the UI is great and Siri works well.
I'm very much an Apple house so homekit linking is important.
Be aware - whilst Evohome is brilliant sometimes, it can present some significant installation problems (as I am discovering in our new house). For example, the sensor for the hot water is not compatible with Megaflo cylinders - something that Honeywell do not bother telling you when you are buying the kit. They also do not bother to tell you anywhere in the instructions for the underfloor heating controller that you also need to buy zone actuators, nor what type these need to be.And their support line is pretty useless too: unavailable on phone, and take days to respond to e-mails.Heating: I have Honeywell EvoHome for zoned control (linked to iphone and remote display in hall)
Audio: Sonos
Lights: Philips Hue linked to Siri for voice on the wall mounted ipads and iphone for remote control
the Hue is expensive at 45quid a bulb - but the UI is great and Siri works well.
I'm very much an Apple house so homekit linking is important.
The sales/installation process seems set up to make sure you have to use a dedicated installer, at a cost of hundreds of pounds, for more complex installations. My last setup (combi boiler and rads) was dead easy. Add UFH and hoy water cylinder into the mix, less so.
The system is fantastic when up and running - but in no way the plug and play solution they claim it is.
There seems to be a lot of people on this thread who know their stuff, so wonder if I could ask what seems to be a simple question, to me anyways! 
I have a 7 day 2 channel timer to control my heating at home, one of these:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Time-Switches-...
On the whole I'm happy that I can set it to refelct my requirements, but occasionally I would like to be able to access it from work and maybe click the hot water on a bit earlier, for example, or even programme it from an app rather than from a little confusing screen on the box itself.
Is there yet a 'thing' that can replace this unit in my kitchen, and connect to my netwrok so I can control it remotely via an app, both from within the house and from work?
Also, I have an immersion heater that I use occasionally, I'd like to be able to turn that on remotely, something like a Wemo would do, but I'd need a 30amp Wemo which didn't exist last time I looked, is there something available for this yet?
I've searched for both these items before but the 'solutions' always seem to be way too complicated and expensive for what I want. I don't want self sensing system, zone controls, multi thermostats , etc... and I don't want to be spending £500 either!
I have a 7 day 2 channel timer to control my heating at home, one of these:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Time-Switches-...
On the whole I'm happy that I can set it to refelct my requirements, but occasionally I would like to be able to access it from work and maybe click the hot water on a bit earlier, for example, or even programme it from an app rather than from a little confusing screen on the box itself.
Is there yet a 'thing' that can replace this unit in my kitchen, and connect to my netwrok so I can control it remotely via an app, both from within the house and from work?
Also, I have an immersion heater that I use occasionally, I'd like to be able to turn that on remotely, something like a Wemo would do, but I'd need a 30amp Wemo which didn't exist last time I looked, is there something available for this yet?
I've searched for both these items before but the 'solutions' always seem to be way too complicated and expensive for what I want. I don't want self sensing system, zone controls, multi thermostats , etc... and I don't want to be spending £500 either!
Piersman2 said:
There seems to be a lot of people on this thread who know their stuff, so wonder if I could ask what seems to be a simple question, to me anyways!
I have a 7 day 2 channel timer to control my heating at home, one of these:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Time-Switches-...
On the whole I'm happy that I can set it to refelct my requirements, but occasionally I would like to be able to access it from work and maybe click the hot water on a bit earlier, for example, or even programme it from an app rather than from a little confusing screen on the box itself.
Is there yet a 'thing' that can replace this unit in my kitchen, and connect to my netwrok so I can control it remotely via an app, both from within the house and from work?
Also, I have an immersion heater that I use occasionally, I'd like to be able to turn that on remotely, something like a Wemo would do, but I'd need a 30amp Wemo which didn't exist last time I looked, is there something available for this yet?
I've searched for both these items before but the 'solutions' always seem to be way too complicated and expensive for what I want. I don't want self sensing system, zone controls, multi thermostats , etc... and I don't want to be spending £500 either!
I think a Nest would do everything you need bar the immersion heater.I have a 7 day 2 channel timer to control my heating at home, one of these:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Time-Switches-...
On the whole I'm happy that I can set it to refelct my requirements, but occasionally I would like to be able to access it from work and maybe click the hot water on a bit earlier, for example, or even programme it from an app rather than from a little confusing screen on the box itself.
Is there yet a 'thing' that can replace this unit in my kitchen, and connect to my netwrok so I can control it remotely via an app, both from within the house and from work?
Also, I have an immersion heater that I use occasionally, I'd like to be able to turn that on remotely, something like a Wemo would do, but I'd need a 30amp Wemo which didn't exist last time I looked, is there something available for this yet?
I've searched for both these items before but the 'solutions' always seem to be way too complicated and expensive for what I want. I don't want self sensing system, zone controls, multi thermostats , etc... and I don't want to be spending £500 either!
Harry Flashman said:
Be aware - whilst Evohome is brilliant sometimes, it can present some significant installation problems (as I am discovering in our new house). For example, the sensor for the hot water is not compatible with Megaflo cylinders - something that Honeywell do not bother telling you when you are buying the kit. They also do not bother to tell you anywhere in the instructions for the underfloor heating controller that you also need to buy zone actuators, nor what type these need to be.And their support line is pretty useless too: unavailable on phone, and take days to respond to e-mails.
The sales/installation process seems set up to make sure you have to use a dedicated installer, at a cost of hundreds of pounds, for more complex installations. My last setup (combi boiler and rads) was dead easy. Add UFH and hoy water cylinder into the mix, less so.
The system is fantastic when up and running - but in no way the plug and play solution they claim it is.
I fitted it myself after a few YouTube vids - been working faultless for 10months now. But didn't to mess with the hot water thing - just replaced the boiler thermostat.The sales/installation process seems set up to make sure you have to use a dedicated installer, at a cost of hundreds of pounds, for more complex installations. My last setup (combi boiler and rads) was dead easy. Add UFH and hoy water cylinder into the mix, less so.
The system is fantastic when up and running - but in no way the plug and play solution they claim it is.
It's all about voice and programming the lights to be on when you need them.My approach with this has been to run Domoticz on a Raspberry PI and interface with systems as much as possible. Not much cost other than time.
That way, I have Evohome, Sonos, Wemo, a standalone alarm system etc, and can view and control those systems via Domoticz.
If one day the Pi breaks, no problem - Evohome still controls the boiler, you can use Sonos as normal, etc.
For example:
After 11pm, once the PIR in the kitchen/diner has detected no activity for 15 minutes, the kitchen Sonos turns off, Evohome sets 3 rooms to a nighttime override temperature, and our outside lights turn off (Fibaro)
After 6am, once the PIR in the hall detects activity, the Sonos turns on (Radio 4), Evohome boosts the towel rails in our bathroom for 30 minutes.
When we go out and set the alarm Sonos turns off, the heating is set to a custom setback temperature, if the alarm goes off I get sent pictures from the CCTV...
It's quite addictive and ultimately you could live without it but if you are happy to do a bit of Python/Lua scripting a lot of things are possible for not much money.
That way, I have Evohome, Sonos, Wemo, a standalone alarm system etc, and can view and control those systems via Domoticz.
If one day the Pi breaks, no problem - Evohome still controls the boiler, you can use Sonos as normal, etc.
For example:
After 11pm, once the PIR in the kitchen/diner has detected no activity for 15 minutes, the kitchen Sonos turns off, Evohome sets 3 rooms to a nighttime override temperature, and our outside lights turn off (Fibaro)
After 6am, once the PIR in the hall detects activity, the Sonos turns on (Radio 4), Evohome boosts the towel rails in our bathroom for 30 minutes.
When we go out and set the alarm Sonos turns off, the heating is set to a custom setback temperature, if the alarm goes off I get sent pictures from the CCTV...
It's quite addictive and ultimately you could live without it but if you are happy to do a bit of Python/Lua scripting a lot of things are possible for not much money.
I agree with the alarm comments whole heartedly, would only ever take trigger from it as they usually give contact closure outputs for 'Armed', 'Triggered' & 'Fire' etc, from which any good control system can react.
Would never use a 3rd party device to set or unset a system, that is a whole can of worms that doesnt need touching!
--
In the mid-range world, C4 is a credible alternative to Crestron, but as you get further up the control requirements then Crestron becomes the better solution.
--
I like the concept of Fibaro and have a bunch of stuff to play with here, but the range of variables in the set is massive and again perfect for the DIY'er / Tinkerer but unless you are doing it all-day, every-day it is going to be difficult to remember settings and setup details. (support is a bit crap to)
V.
Would never use a 3rd party device to set or unset a system, that is a whole can of worms that doesnt need touching!
--
In the mid-range world, C4 is a credible alternative to Crestron, but as you get further up the control requirements then Crestron becomes the better solution.
--
I like the concept of Fibaro and have a bunch of stuff to play with here, but the range of variables in the set is massive and again perfect for the DIY'er / Tinkerer but unless you are doing it all-day, every-day it is going to be difficult to remember settings and setup details. (support is a bit crap to)
V.
PinkFatBunny said:
Harry Flashman said:
Be aware - whilst Evohome is brilliant sometimes, it can present some significant installation problems (as I am discovering in our new house). For example, the sensor for the hot water is not compatible with Megaflo cylinders - something that Honeywell do not bother telling you when you are buying the kit. They also do not bother to tell you anywhere in the instructions for the underfloor heating controller that you also need to buy zone actuators, nor what type these need to be.And their support line is pretty useless too: unavailable on phone, and take days to respond to e-mails.
The sales/installation process seems set up to make sure you have to use a dedicated installer, at a cost of hundreds of pounds, for more complex installations. My last setup (combi boiler and rads) was dead easy. Add UFH and hoy water cylinder into the mix, less so.
The system is fantastic when up and running - but in no way the plug and play solution they claim it is.
I fitted it myself after a few YouTube vids - been working faultless for 10months now. But didn't to mess with the hot water thing - just replaced the boiler thermostat.The sales/installation process seems set up to make sure you have to use a dedicated installer, at a cost of hundreds of pounds, for more complex installations. My last setup (combi boiler and rads) was dead easy. Add UFH and hoy water cylinder into the mix, less so.
The system is fantastic when up and running - but in no way the plug and play solution they claim it is.
Wait until you start on the hot water cylinder though, if it's a Megaflo. There are some safety implications to messing with these!
Wunderbar!
That's some good feedback, thanks to everyone for their contributions. I need to print this off and reply to individual posts one by one.
Vex - Starting with you, thank you for breaking that down, and what you say makes good sense. If I am going to go for it I would like a truly smart house, so ideally I want the speakers, security, heating, lighting, blinds, garage door etc to all make informed choices depending on the conditions that the other elements report. I believe that pushes me away from the collection of best in breed solutions, to something that is more centrally controlled.
Lighting control seems to be the lynchpin, because a) its a basic function and needs to work reliably, and b) the hard wired star or bus systems are a big departure from normal wiring topology (and once the place is wired that way its not a easy thing to redo!) I don't want to end up with a system that is buggy, or a wiring setup that actually puts people off buying my house further down the line. It would be nice to be able to wire in the traditional way but have the smart functionality. It sounds like maybe Rako is a good fit, or Eliot's suggestion of star wiring via the lightswitch point. I have to say I am being advised by every single AV guy that has come to see me to go down the Control4 route but something about it doesn't sit well with me. Does anyone have any negative experiences? (Good to see your view NorthDave)
As for distributed video - I'm kind of happy with a terrestrial signal and an internet connection. We will have a Virgin account because its the only way to get decent broadband, so it would be nice to be able to access the Tivo in multiple locations but its not something i'd divert much budget to. Media Room seems to be getting squeezed out by the cost of the lighting which is getting out of control. Does a big telly and a sound bar count as a media room?!
Alarm - seems that Texecom is the standalone system that plays nicely with other systems.
UFH system we are looking at does seem to have a good controller which is zoned and can also deal with the MVHR and hot water.. So the easy (safe) option is definitely to stick with this and hope that its possible to to overlay it with the eventual control system. The honeywell system looks very similar in functionality.
Audio - Is Denon Heos a worth alternative to Sonos?
To Paralla - your system sounds good, and I have to say I am reluctant to be the guy next door with the 19" rack and the annual service contract!
To Essayer - your system sounds like exactly what I am looking for.. but unfortunately I am not a DIYer, in fact i am utterly devoid of any skills on this front, so I want to choose a system that someone else can install and that I can tweak within certain boundaries.
Again thanks all for your input, very helpful.
Klive
That's some good feedback, thanks to everyone for their contributions. I need to print this off and reply to individual posts one by one.
Vex - Starting with you, thank you for breaking that down, and what you say makes good sense. If I am going to go for it I would like a truly smart house, so ideally I want the speakers, security, heating, lighting, blinds, garage door etc to all make informed choices depending on the conditions that the other elements report. I believe that pushes me away from the collection of best in breed solutions, to something that is more centrally controlled.
Lighting control seems to be the lynchpin, because a) its a basic function and needs to work reliably, and b) the hard wired star or bus systems are a big departure from normal wiring topology (and once the place is wired that way its not a easy thing to redo!) I don't want to end up with a system that is buggy, or a wiring setup that actually puts people off buying my house further down the line. It would be nice to be able to wire in the traditional way but have the smart functionality. It sounds like maybe Rako is a good fit, or Eliot's suggestion of star wiring via the lightswitch point. I have to say I am being advised by every single AV guy that has come to see me to go down the Control4 route but something about it doesn't sit well with me. Does anyone have any negative experiences? (Good to see your view NorthDave)
As for distributed video - I'm kind of happy with a terrestrial signal and an internet connection. We will have a Virgin account because its the only way to get decent broadband, so it would be nice to be able to access the Tivo in multiple locations but its not something i'd divert much budget to. Media Room seems to be getting squeezed out by the cost of the lighting which is getting out of control. Does a big telly and a sound bar count as a media room?!
Alarm - seems that Texecom is the standalone system that plays nicely with other systems.
UFH system we are looking at does seem to have a good controller which is zoned and can also deal with the MVHR and hot water.. So the easy (safe) option is definitely to stick with this and hope that its possible to to overlay it with the eventual control system. The honeywell system looks very similar in functionality.
Audio - Is Denon Heos a worth alternative to Sonos?
To Paralla - your system sounds good, and I have to say I am reluctant to be the guy next door with the 19" rack and the annual service contract!
To Essayer - your system sounds like exactly what I am looking for.. but unfortunately I am not a DIYer, in fact i am utterly devoid of any skills on this front, so I want to choose a system that someone else can install and that I can tweak within certain boundaries.
Again thanks all for your input, very helpful.
Klive
Edited by klivedrgar on Wednesday 23 November 23:01
Edited by klivedrgar on Wednesday 23 November 23:02
klivedrgar said:
Wunderbar!
Lighting control seems to be the lynchpin, because a) its a basic function and needs to work reliably, and b) the hard wired star or bus systems are a big departure from normal wiring topology (and once the place is wired that way its not a easy thing to redo!) I don't want to end up with a system that is buggy, or a wiring setup that actually puts people off buying my house further down the line. It would be nice to be able to wire in the traditional way but have the smart functionality. It sounds like maybe Rako is a good fit, or Eliot's suggestion of star wiring via the lightswitch point. I have to say I am being advised by every single AV guy that has come to see me to go down the Control4 route but something about it doesn't sit well with me. Does anyone have any negative experiences? (Good to see your view NorthDave)
I have had my Control4 for about 4 years now, no problems with it. We rent a house and I have fitted PUK's to floor lamps to give me a lighting system. Lighting control seems to be the lynchpin, because a) its a basic function and needs to work reliably, and b) the hard wired star or bus systems are a big departure from normal wiring topology (and once the place is wired that way its not a easy thing to redo!) I don't want to end up with a system that is buggy, or a wiring setup that actually puts people off buying my house further down the line. It would be nice to be able to wire in the traditional way but have the smart functionality. It sounds like maybe Rako is a good fit, or Eliot's suggestion of star wiring via the lightswitch point. I have to say I am being advised by every single AV guy that has come to see me to go down the Control4 route but something about it doesn't sit well with me. Does anyone have any negative experiences? (Good to see your view NorthDave)
Control4 now sell a device that fits into the existing back boxes that have the same PUK in the back as I have fitted to the floor lamps. These use Zigbee as far as I know and I have never had a problem with them. The also sell a central lighting system where all the cables go to one place.
So effectively you remove the light switch fit this device and connect it to Control4 or use it as a normal switch, you can have up to 8 buttons and a dimmer. So you could use the buttons to turn all the lights on, or off, you could turn on the radio? Lots of options.
I am going to order some of these in the next few weeks and will update this.
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