Plumbing expert - help diagnose the problem - at wits end!
Discussion
Please help
Inlaws live in a bungalow. Their gas boiler (Alpha) does both hot water and heating. It is in the garage on the wall. 7 years ago, the entire heating system was replaced - even down to running 15mm copper pipes to all radiators, replacing the microbore. There is an immersion heater in the cupboard.
Six weeks ago, the heating and hot water stopped. Original fitting plumber attended, diagnosed a faulty pump. He fitted a new pump. It made no difference. He diagnosed a broken bypass valve. Fitted a replacement. Again no difference. Each time he turns up was a week, apart, going off to 'research the problem'. Eventually he stops answering calls, ignores messages, basically disappears off the face of the earth. 4 weeks gone. Inlaws find another plumber who has diagnosed a bypass valve within the boiler. Replaced it. No difference. Still no heating. He has also replaced another bypass valve I think. He now proposes to flush the system, but I think is guessing rather than knowing what the problem is.
The boiler is producing heat. The radiators are lukewarm rather than stone cold. Occasionally it will get warm, then stop again.
Any ideas? Current plumber has over 10 hours in this, yet to be invoiced. Original plumber (if he ever reappears) will want a wedge for parts and labour (which he will have to get via Small Claims now as hes pissed me off). What the hell can it be? Getting silly now as its now costing me as I cant send my kids there while its freezing, so I am paying for childcare where they could and should be at their grandparents.
Inlaws live in a bungalow. Their gas boiler (Alpha) does both hot water and heating. It is in the garage on the wall. 7 years ago, the entire heating system was replaced - even down to running 15mm copper pipes to all radiators, replacing the microbore. There is an immersion heater in the cupboard.
Six weeks ago, the heating and hot water stopped. Original fitting plumber attended, diagnosed a faulty pump. He fitted a new pump. It made no difference. He diagnosed a broken bypass valve. Fitted a replacement. Again no difference. Each time he turns up was a week, apart, going off to 'research the problem'. Eventually he stops answering calls, ignores messages, basically disappears off the face of the earth. 4 weeks gone. Inlaws find another plumber who has diagnosed a bypass valve within the boiler. Replaced it. No difference. Still no heating. He has also replaced another bypass valve I think. He now proposes to flush the system, but I think is guessing rather than knowing what the problem is.
The boiler is producing heat. The radiators are lukewarm rather than stone cold. Occasionally it will get warm, then stop again.
Any ideas? Current plumber has over 10 hours in this, yet to be invoiced. Original plumber (if he ever reappears) will want a wedge for parts and labour (which he will have to get via Small Claims now as hes pissed me off). What the hell can it be? Getting silly now as its now costing me as I cant send my kids there while its freezing, so I am paying for childcare where they could and should be at their grandparents.
Hard to say without being in front of it, but have they looked at the diverter valve?
It's possible that the heat could be circulating around the hot water heat exchanger, rather than the rads.
As Roofer says, a sensor could be at fault. You'd need to check the temperature and resistance of the sensor against manufacturers spec.
Where are you based?
It's possible that the heat could be circulating around the hot water heat exchanger, rather than the rads.
As Roofer says, a sensor could be at fault. You'd need to check the temperature and resistance of the sensor against manufacturers spec.
Where are you based?
3 way motorised diverter valve might be the culprit. Put the central heating and hot water switches on the controller to 24hours (on all the time) and turn the room thermostat to full and the hot water tank thermostat to full. The boiler should run and the pipes from the diverter valve should all be hot to touch.
If not then the thermostats or the diverter valve are likely culprits. If the boiler shuts down before the pipes get hot then the boiler thermostat could be faulty.
If not then the thermostats or the diverter valve are likely culprits. If the boiler shuts down before the pipes get hot then the boiler thermostat could be faulty.
stevensdrs said:
3 way motorised diverter valve might be the culprit. Put the central heating and hot water switches on the controller to 24hours (on all the time) and turn the room thermostat to full and the hot water tank thermostat to full. The boiler should run and the pipes from the diverter valve should all be hot to touch.
If not then the thermostats or the diverter valve are likely culprits. If the boiler shuts down before the pipes get hot then the boiler thermostat could be faulty.
It sounds like the OP is referring to a combi boiler. So no motorised valve, although the diverter valve inside the boiler performs a similar task.If not then the thermostats or the diverter valve are likely culprits. If the boiler shuts down before the pipes get hot then the boiler thermostat could be faulty.
It could be absolutely anything - it's not even clear of the fault is in the boiler or elsewhere in the system.
Only thing I could suggest is calling Alpha, but you'd need to be in front of the boiler to see if they could diagnose remotely. They don't appear to have a repair service though, as some boiler manufacturers do.
What's the exact model of the boiler?
Only thing I could suggest is calling Alpha, but you'd need to be in front of the boiler to see if they could diagnose remotely. They don't appear to have a repair service though, as some boiler manufacturers do.
What's the exact model of the boiler?
TooLateForAName said:
Rickyy said:
It sounds like the OP is referring to a combi boiler. So no motorised valve, although the diverter valve inside the boiler performs a similar task.
He says that there is an immersion heater so prob a 'normal' boiler?In that case, it sounds like it could be lack of circulation or a sensor fault with the boiler.
I had a similar sounding issue when there was a blockage in the cold feed at the link between the F/E and vent pipe.
The hot water from the boiler was only partially making it through into the main circuit. The heated water was mostly just sitting on top of the boiler in the F/E pipe since it couldn't get much further than that.
In my case it was sludge that was the issue so probably not that in a new system, but it is apparently a very common issue.
I found out it was a common issue after 2 different plumbers tried to convince me it was a pump/valve issue, despite the fact they were less than 3 years old and working perfectly.
I cut the blocked section out and replaced it myself.
Job jobbed.
I found a YouTube clip which shows what I'm talking about. It's not exactly a high budget production by a professional outfit but you'll get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY1XjtfoOfk
The hot water from the boiler was only partially making it through into the main circuit. The heated water was mostly just sitting on top of the boiler in the F/E pipe since it couldn't get much further than that.
In my case it was sludge that was the issue so probably not that in a new system, but it is apparently a very common issue.
I found out it was a common issue after 2 different plumbers tried to convince me it was a pump/valve issue, despite the fact they were less than 3 years old and working perfectly.
I cut the blocked section out and replaced it myself.
Job jobbed.
I found a YouTube clip which shows what I'm talking about. It's not exactly a high budget production by a professional outfit but you'll get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY1XjtfoOfk
forest07 said:
TTmonkey said:
Stop messing around with plumbers. Call British Gas, they do an agreed one fee service, they will fix it.
+1 especially when it's an AlphaYou just need a plumber who is competent at repairing boilers. It sounds like the OP has been using guessers!
Someone with an understanding of how a boiler works and the common sense to speak to Alphas technical department whilst on site, could easily get it sorted.
OP, if you're anywhere in South Wales, I'll happily come and have a look for you.
Contact alpha's technical support if you can or get the installation manual for that make and model of boiler.
I had an alpha boiler with the same symptoms. Changing diverter valve or changing the pcb tended to fix it each time it did this. After the third breakdown when it was just over 4 years old I got rid.
A chemical clean would deal with potential blockages. That is worth doing anyway. It probably won't fix the boiler but it will mean once it is working it is the best it can be.
Homeserve offer fixed price repairs. I have no idea how good they are with Alphas.
http://www.homeserve.com/repairs/alpha-boiler-repa...
http://www.homeserve.com/repairs/terms-and-conditi...
I had an alpha boiler with the same symptoms. Changing diverter valve or changing the pcb tended to fix it each time it did this. After the third breakdown when it was just over 4 years old I got rid.
A chemical clean would deal with potential blockages. That is worth doing anyway. It probably won't fix the boiler but it will mean once it is working it is the best it can be.
Homeserve offer fixed price repairs. I have no idea how good they are with Alphas.
http://www.homeserve.com/repairs/alpha-boiler-repa...
http://www.homeserve.com/repairs/terms-and-conditi...
Rickyy said:
forest07 said:
TTmonkey said:
Stop messing around with plumbers. Call British Gas, they do an agreed one fee service, they will fix it.
+1 especially when it's an AlphaYou just need a plumber who is competent at repairing boilers. It sounds like the OP has been using guessers!
Someone with an understanding of how a boiler works and the common sense to speak to Alphas technical department whilst on site, could easily get it sorted.
OP, if you're anywhere in South Wales, I'll happily come and have a look for you.
forest07 said:
But when the cost of parts exceed the British Gas fixed price it's well worth it
But that's presumably funded by making others pay over the odds for normal jobs. Plus the f
kers never turn up, or if they do, they haven't got the part and you need to re-book. My 80 y.o parents have been given the run-around by British Gas for the last week; they are supposed to be priority customers and they have no heating. They have spent longer on the phone to British Gas than British gas have spent failing to fix the problem. I would have called in another heating engineer in no time, but old folks won't take telling. In short, British Gas are s
t.forest07 said:
Rickyy said:
forest07 said:
TTmonkey said:
Stop messing around with plumbers. Call British Gas, they do an agreed one fee service, they will fix it.
+1 especially when it's an AlphaYou just need a plumber who is competent at repairing boilers. It sounds like the OP has been using guessers!
Someone with an understanding of how a boiler works and the common sense to speak to Alphas technical department whilst on site, could easily get it sorted.
OP, if you're anywhere in South Wales, I'll happily come and have a look for you.
You can guarantee that on an open vented system, there will be a small, but not necessarily harmful, amount of sludge. Which they could refuse to work on, until they've carried out an expensive powerflush.
As does every manufacturer as well though not just the contract supplying firms. It's plain to see in everyone's literature sludge is excluded its solely down to a poor install to fit a new system and leave dirt in the system so why should anyone cover it if the installer did a poor job?.
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