2015 Lawn thread
Discussion
I've now cleared a lot of the trees, bushes and shrubs from around the edge of the house, and can start to see what I have to work with. I know it's the wrong time of year, but I did scarify it all to clear back 2-3 green wheely bins worth of moss and dead grass, so this is pretty much my starting point.
We plan to plant a privet hedge along the boundary wall, so most of the smaller trees will be coming down and added to Beechers Brook at the side of the house. Eventually I will be getting a double garage built there, so I'm not too concerned about that area for now.
The garden was completely overgrown when we moved in two months ago - the side of the house was not possible to get through, and the garden was half the width at the back, and barely visible from the front.
I've had two midi-skips of green waste go already, and a Timberwolf filled a 7.5t tipper with mulch. And we still have all this to dispose off, but the new kitchen budget has expanded at the expense of the garden budget.
Now that I have broken the back of clearing the ground, I'm not 100% sure where to start on the grass, and there is a stupid amount of ground ivy everywhere that is taking over now it has some sunlight on it.
Besides napalm/nuked from orbit/tractor and plough - what suggestions do the more experienced of you have for me?
We plan to plant a privet hedge along the boundary wall, so most of the smaller trees will be coming down and added to Beechers Brook at the side of the house. Eventually I will be getting a double garage built there, so I'm not too concerned about that area for now.
The garden was completely overgrown when we moved in two months ago - the side of the house was not possible to get through, and the garden was half the width at the back, and barely visible from the front.
I've had two midi-skips of green waste go already, and a Timberwolf filled a 7.5t tipper with mulch. And we still have all this to dispose off, but the new kitchen budget has expanded at the expense of the garden budget.
Now that I have broken the back of clearing the ground, I'm not 100% sure where to start on the grass, and there is a stupid amount of ground ivy everywhere that is taking over now it has some sunlight on it.
Besides napalm/nuked from orbit/tractor and plough - what suggestions do the more experienced of you have for me?
jagnet said:
Depending on budget, I'd perhaps be looking at something like the Earthway S15 or S25 here for spraying, and one of the liquid fertilisers here.
Thanks for those. Not sure I can justify £250 - £450 on a sprayer. Feels like overkill for my lawn, but thanks for opening me up to that solution - will go and see if there is something a bit less 'pro' out there that would suit my needs... the backpack sprayers look interesting.Edited by NewNameNeeded on Monday 6th July 13:39
NewNameNeeded said:
Hi guys, any recommendations for a liquid feed (and system to apply) for a larger lawn (100' by 40')? Dissolving granules in a watering can is a bit impractical.
Still need to dissolve the granules but this may be a better option than a watering can. My lawn is probably a bit larger than yours and although it needs a few fills it's easily manageablehttp://www.screwfix.com/p/backpack-sprayer-16ltr/5...
JimM169 said:
NewNameNeeded said:
Hi guys, any recommendations for a liquid feed (and system to apply) for a larger lawn (100' by 40')? Dissolving granules in a watering can is a bit impractical.
Still need to dissolve the granules but this may be a better option than a watering can. My lawn is probably a bit larger than yours and although it needs a few fills it's easily manageablehttp://www.screwfix.com/p/backpack-sprayer-16ltr/5...
R8VXF said:
Wouldn't one of these be easier? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Miracle-Gro-Feeder-Purpose...
That's what I initially thought. Ideally a Hozelock compatible feed system would have been perfect - but most of the reviews I've read suggest this doesn't apply the feed very evenly with it coming through it bits and pieces or becoming clogged in the system itself.NewNameNeeded said:
R8VXF said:
Wouldn't one of these be easier? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Miracle-Gro-Feeder-Purpose...
That's what I initially thought. Ideally a Hozelock compatible feed system would have been perfect - but most of the reviews I've read suggest this doesn't apply the feed very evenly with it coming through it bits and pieces or becoming clogged in the system itself.daytona365 said:
Is it absolutely necessary to rake and remove all cuttings from mown lawn, ie when using say a hover type mower ? Some say it's even beneficial to leave some as nutrient ? Thanks.
Depends on the volume of clippings really. If you mow regularly and are only producing a small volume each time then you can leave it down. That is what I do anyway. Just remember not to leave large clumps of clippings as these will wreck the grass 
JimM169 said:
NewNameNeeded said:
Hi guys, any recommendations for a liquid feed (and system to apply) for a larger lawn (100' by 40')? Dissolving granules in a watering can is a bit impractical.
Still need to dissolve the granules but this may be a better option than a watering can. My lawn is probably a bit larger than yours and although it needs a few fills it's easily manageablehttp://www.screwfix.com/p/backpack-sprayer-16ltr/5...
R8VXF said:
daytona365 said:
Is it absolutely necessary to rake and remove all cuttings from mown lawn, ie when using say a hover type mower ? Some say it's even beneficial to leave some as nutrient ? Thanks.
Depends on the volume of clippings really. If you mow regularly and are only producing a small volume each time then you can leave it down. That is what I do anyway. Just remember not to leave large clumps of clippings as these will wreck the grass 
te and mucous are so vital to your soil, and in turn your lawn. As said the trick is to mow once a week so it never gets to the stage where your cutting a hay crop!
NewNameNeeded said:
the backpack sprayers look interesting.
A backpack sprayer would cope fine, just somewhat slower. I'd get a good quality one though as cheaper pressure sprayers have an annoying habit of splitting along seams and their spray nozzles usually aren't that great. daytona365 said:
Is it absolutely necessary to rake and remove all cuttings from mown lawn, ie when using say a hover type mower ? Some say it's even beneficial to leave some as nutrient ? Thanks.
I usually leave the clippings, only using the box when some of the grasses are seeding or I've put down some weedkiller. As has been mentioned, when mown regularly the clippings don't contribute to thatch build up and they quickly decompose providing a good source of nutrients for the lawn.A mulching mower may be worth looking into. It cuts the clippings up much more finely than a normal rotary mower and actively blows them down into the turf so that they're less visible.
S11Steve said:
Besides napalm/nuked from orbit/tractor and plough - what suggestions do the more experienced of you have for me?
Have you decided what you want to use the lawn for. Any problem areas re waterlogging or dryness, etc?Depending on whether you wanted a hard wearing family lawn or a fine leaved ornamental lawn will determine the best options to take now given that you have quite a mammoth task ahead of you sorting that lot out.
jagnet said:
Have you decided what you want to use the lawn for. Any problem areas re waterlogging or dryness, etc?
Depending on whether you wanted a hard wearing family lawn or a fine leaved ornamental lawn will determine the best options to take now given that you have quite a mammoth task ahead of you sorting that lot out.
Two pre-teen boys and a dog, probably requires a hard-wearing lawn. A fair chunk of the front lawn will be turned into driveway to service the garage, but that is realistically 2 years away.Depending on whether you wanted a hard wearing family lawn or a fine leaved ornamental lawn will determine the best options to take now given that you have quite a mammoth task ahead of you sorting that lot out.
There is no water logging that we have noticed, but we've only been in two months, That said, the garden slopes (are we allowed to say that now?) about 15-20ft from far back to front wall.
I'm quite happy to tackle the laborious parts myself, as any spare budget for this year has gone into the kitchen. And there is a lot of kitchen too...!
jagnet said:
That looks like field bindweed to me. Regular mowing and lawn weedkillers will eventually get it under control. Alternatively try to lift it out of the lawn where possible, push it into a jam jar and spray with a glyphosate product in the jar to avoid getting any on the grass.
Bindweed, although not as bad as some, is a real headache to eliminate. Its roots can extend down some 5 metres and it's capable of regrowing from the tiniest pieces of root.
RHS: Bindweed
Thanks Jagnet, I'll keep working on it..!Bindweed, although not as bad as some, is a real headache to eliminate. Its roots can extend down some 5 metres and it's capable of regrowing from the tiniest pieces of root.
RHS: Bindweed
S11Steve said:
Two pre-teen boys and a dog, probably requires a hard-wearing lawn. A fair chunk of the front lawn will be turned into driveway to service the garage, but that is realistically 2 years away.
There is no water logging that we have noticed, but we've only been in two months, That said, the garden slopes (are we allowed to say that now?) about 15-20ft from far back to front wall.
I'm quite happy to tackle the laborious parts myself, as any spare budget for this year has gone into the kitchen. And there is a lot of kitchen too...!
I'd definitely go for a ryegrass based lawn in that case. Perhaps with some fescue to help against any remaining shade. Now that you've removed most of the overgrown stuff the moss problem should naturally improve, but it does look as though you'll still have some shaded areas which ryegrass really doesn't tolerate so well. Plus the fescue is better at self repairing areas than the ryegrass which is a clumping grass so doesn't spread.There is no water logging that we have noticed, but we've only been in two months, That said, the garden slopes (are we allowed to say that now?) about 15-20ft from far back to front wall.
I'm quite happy to tackle the laborious parts myself, as any spare budget for this year has gone into the kitchen. And there is a lot of kitchen too...!
If you're not too perturbed by the thought of clover in your lawn, a microclover blend should help keep the lawn looking less patchy in the face of any dog urine spots, greener in dry conditions and after a while becomes naturally self fertilising.
You could even give a section over to a grass / wildflower mix for a very low maintenance, insect friendly area, perhaps where the garage will eventually end up.
Looking at the condition of large parts of the lawn, whatever you do is going to involve seeding at new lawn rates as there's just not enough grass left for anything less, and what grass there is for the most part doesn't look like anything you'd want to create a lawn from.
With that in mind I really would give serious consideration to starting over. One of my local hire places does a large cultivator for £60 + VAT per day (might need a couple of days hire for your whole lawn) or a compact tractor plus stone burier attachment for £180 + VAT for a day which would be plenty long enough to prep your whole lawn area leaving a nicely tilled surface ready for seeding. Either way, it's not a huge sum versus the benefits. If you can till some humus in at the same time even better.
If you do go down that route then I would glyphosate the whole lot a couple of weeks beforehand to kill off as much undesirable grass as you can for the best new start.
I would maybe think about getting a basic soil test done too to establish where your lawn area is in terms of PH and Phosphate / Potassium / Magnesium.
If you really don't want to start from scratch then I would say that it is worth hollow tining first before overseeding - hire of a suitable machine for the day shouldn't be that expensive. There's bound to be some areas that are heavily compacted and that won't help any new seed.
I would say that it's up to you then whether or not you want to top dress the lawn. For a family lawn it's definitely a nicety rather than a necessity given that the cost in top dressing mix can rapidly escalate on a larger lawn. Perhaps take some soil samples from various areas. If there's any that look problematic then focus on adding some compost/sand top dressing to just those areas if the budget is tight.
I would definitely be inclined to seed rather than lay turf from a purely financial perspective at least. Seed is pretty inexpensive, so I'd get enough to sow at new lawn rates, then at least 50% more again as you'll likely get a few areas that struggle to germinate if we have more hot weather and need a repeat sowing. Good seed should store fine for 2 or 3 years if kept in a cool, dark dry place so it won't go to waste. And I'd get the seed from somewhere like Pitchcare or Lawnsmith, and definitely not those little packs from the garden center which don't even state what grasses they use.
A thin covering of straw will help protect the germinating seed and is much cheaper than dedicated germinating mats. A couple of big bales from a local animal feed wholesaler won't cost much at all and should do your whole lawn.
Anyway, just some thoughts
wjwren said:
anyone got any advice on red ants on lawn? I had 3 nests so dug holes about 16 inches deep by 12 inch wide and disposed of soil. But seem to have a new nest now. What do people do just leave them and ignore them?
Lawnsmith sell lawn safe ant killer sachets and bait stations here. Fortunately I've managed to avoid needing them so far so can't vouch for how well they work.I can vouch for the HSS rotavator being a bargain and definitely up to the job http://www.hss.com/hire/p/power-digger-rotavator
That's a great help and gives me some ideas. I like the idea of rotavating and reseeding, and had looked at hiring one to sort out the borders. There are loads of roots that need hacking out with a mattock.
When would be the best time to think about doing that? The kids are away for three weeks in July and August, and we are on holiday at the end of August, so would be ideal time logistically, but would it be too dry and warm for seed?
Looking closer at the garden tonight, the soil is heavily compacted and looks dry, but there is still a lot of trees around that will be absorbing it up. We are quite high up with no natural water courses nearby, and we think the ground water level is very deep down.
When would be the best time to think about doing that? The kids are away for three weeks in July and August, and we are on holiday at the end of August, so would be ideal time logistically, but would it be too dry and warm for seed?
Looking closer at the garden tonight, the soil is heavily compacted and looks dry, but there is still a lot of trees around that will be absorbing it up. We are quite high up with no natural water courses nearby, and we think the ground water level is very deep down.
August is the perfect time to be doing lawn renovations. Soil temperatures are still good, the worst of the summer heat is over and it gives plenty of time for the seed to establish before winter arrives. Rain is also likely to be more frequent which reduces the need to get the sprinklers out so often. By the time summer comes around the grass will be very well established and able to cope with dry conditions with minimal watering.
Compost is a great amendment to soil, helping sandy soils retain moisture and heavy soils drain better. I would definitely try to get some incorporated, ideally 2 to 3 inches if digging down 6 to 8 inches but anything is better than nothing. That should help retain moisture for longer and cut down on the need for irrigating.
Also, if you suffer from rapid drying of the soil in the summer, then it becomes even more important to raise the cutting height of the mower at that time of year.
Trees can be particularly difficult areas to deal with (conifers being especially bad). For those areas a shade tolerant seed mix is a good idea, cut higher than on the rest of the lawn, aerate regularly and be prepared to water more often if necessary. Even then you're likely to find yourself over seeding in both spring and autumn. If you can remove lower branches to lift the tree crown it can help a good deal.
For areas that seem particularly difficult due to deeper shade it may be better turning it into a border or even sowing a woodland wild flower and grass mix. I do think that if you have the space for it then a relatively undisturbed wild area does wonders for the overall health of the garden and a difficult shady area can be ideal. If I get chance to clear some of the ivy from my wild corner (it's rather overtaken everything else) then I'll be sowing some more woodland flower seeds this autumn. A log pile in such an area is also an amazingly good habitat for a variety of insects and wildlife. Kind of drifting away from lawns a bit now though
Compost is a great amendment to soil, helping sandy soils retain moisture and heavy soils drain better. I would definitely try to get some incorporated, ideally 2 to 3 inches if digging down 6 to 8 inches but anything is better than nothing. That should help retain moisture for longer and cut down on the need for irrigating.
Also, if you suffer from rapid drying of the soil in the summer, then it becomes even more important to raise the cutting height of the mower at that time of year.
Trees can be particularly difficult areas to deal with (conifers being especially bad). For those areas a shade tolerant seed mix is a good idea, cut higher than on the rest of the lawn, aerate regularly and be prepared to water more often if necessary. Even then you're likely to find yourself over seeding in both spring and autumn. If you can remove lower branches to lift the tree crown it can help a good deal.
For areas that seem particularly difficult due to deeper shade it may be better turning it into a border or even sowing a woodland wild flower and grass mix. I do think that if you have the space for it then a relatively undisturbed wild area does wonders for the overall health of the garden and a difficult shady area can be ideal. If I get chance to clear some of the ivy from my wild corner (it's rather overtaken everything else) then I'll be sowing some more woodland flower seeds this autumn. A log pile in such an area is also an amazingly good habitat for a variety of insects and wildlife. Kind of drifting away from lawns a bit now though
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