2015 Lawn thread
Discussion
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
I've now stockpiled the materials for this year's lawn renovation, which is going to involve a complete killing of the whole lawn and reseeding from scratch. This is horticultural ethnic cleansing: I am determined to eliminate the coarse weed grasses and replace with a pure population of fescues and bents.
So I have my glyphosate to kill it, drain tracing dye so I can see where I've sprayed, starter fertiliser to give the emerging seedlings some extra 'oomph', and the seed itself. I'll also be using some cheapo compost as a light top-dressing on top of the seed.
Can't wait to get started!
Good luck with that! So I have my glyphosate to kill it, drain tracing dye so I can see where I've sprayed, starter fertiliser to give the emerging seedlings some extra 'oomph', and the seed itself. I'll also be using some cheapo compost as a light top-dressing on top of the seed.
Can't wait to get started!
I'm in the lawn business and would never consider doing this to a lawn!
yorkieboy said:
Nice big garden which is new to me! New gf, think I have my work cut out! Dog owner, so some help on looking after it would be helpful 
Minimising patches of dead grass from dog urine is a constant battle. Dilute the urine with water as soon as possible to prevent the grass getting burnt. A full watering can on standby is very helpful. There will be times when you can't however, so repairing dead patches quickly helps prevent weeds and weed grasses taking advantage. I did read one tip recently where some dog owners grow flower pots of turf ready to replace the dead areas, which seems like a very good idea.Feeding the lawn regularly will avoid the patchiness from the lush growth around the dog spots, and of course is a good thing to do anyway. Your lawn looks as though it really could do with a good feed. Avoid 'all in one' products if you can. Treating feeding, weed killing and moss removal separately is better for the health of the lawn imho.
If overseeding the lawn you'll want to choose a hard wearing seed mix to cope with rigours of having a dog running around on it.
Amongst other issues, your lawn looks as though it's suffering from being left to grow longer and then having too much cut off at once. Never remove more than one third of the grass length at once. The higher your height of cut the less often you'll need to cut it as you can take off that much more and still remain within the one third rule.
August / September is the ideal time to be carrying out lawn renovations, so think about scarifying, aerating and over seeding in the next month. Hiring the machinery isn't that expensive. Decompacting the lawn and removing thatch will really help the health of the turf. Overseeding will help reduce the patchy look from the invasive weed grasses and help thicken any thinner areas.
A copy of the The Lawn Expert (and this thread, of course
) will provide you with an excellent crash course in lawncare.
red dye for the full Martian 'red weed' effect.Patch1875 said:
Good luck with that!
I'm in the lawn business and would never consider doing this to a lawn!
I've been playing the 'long game' for a good five or six years, and I've learnt a great deal and have introduced a decent proportion of finer grasses. But still there are areas that are largely dominated by thick, ugly coarse grasses. I have come to the conclusion that the quickest and most thorough way of achieving the lawn I want is to start from scratch, reseed with the type of grass I want and use a pre-emergent herbicide next spring to prevent any undesirables from germinating. As I say: horticultural ethnic cleansing!I'm in the lawn business and would never consider doing this to a lawn!
I had to repair a patch about 2 metres across where it got 'cooked' underneath a pile of pyracantha prunings a few weeks ago. I've been amazed at the incredible speed of germination and that patch is now looking fantastic - so this has given me the confidence to do the same across the whole lawn.
Depending on how well it goes, I might even make this a routine process every 3-5 years perhaps, or if I start getting weed grasses coming back in large amounts. It makes no difference in terms of cost: if overseeding I tend to scatter at 'new lawn' rate anyway. And a thorough scarification makes the lawn look like crap for a few weeks anyway, so ripping it all out is not much of a step further. Or maybe I'll just glyphosate larger areas and reseed if they've become infested with weed grasses.
The other advantage of starting from scratch is that I'll know exactly what grass mix the lawn is composed of, and can purchase the same mix from my regular supplier. Any repairs or large-scale reseeded areas will therefore match exactly.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 30th July 11:56
My neighbours must be close to having me sectioned by now after watching me attacking the lawn with a kitchen knife, but at least it's given me a chance to take some soil samples and see what's occurring under the surface currently. A proper soil sampler might just have to go on this year's Xmas list.
It'd make for a terrible cricket wicket, but for a domestic lawn it's not too bad. There's more compaction than I'd like to have seen given my efforts with aeration this year, but then it didn't get hollow tined last autumn, so that's definitely going to have to happen this year. It is at least a massive improvement over what it was like, where it was so bad that even forking it was a struggle.
The thatch isn't too bad and seems to be mostly on the surface so my own scarifier should cope with that ok this autumn.
At least the soil isn't too heavy with some decent variations in particle size throughout, although I'll carry on trying to get more sand into the rootzone. Root depth doesn't seem too bad, although I'd like to see even more depth if possible so I might fork and hollow tine this year. For reference the grass height is ~12mm in the photo.
It'd make for a terrible cricket wicket, but for a domestic lawn it's not too bad. There's more compaction than I'd like to have seen given my efforts with aeration this year, but then it didn't get hollow tined last autumn, so that's definitely going to have to happen this year. It is at least a massive improvement over what it was like, where it was so bad that even forking it was a struggle.
The thatch isn't too bad and seems to be mostly on the surface so my own scarifier should cope with that ok this autumn.
At least the soil isn't too heavy with some decent variations in particle size throughout, although I'll carry on trying to get more sand into the rootzone. Root depth doesn't seem too bad, although I'd like to see even more depth if possible so I might fork and hollow tine this year. For reference the grass height is ~12mm in the photo.
jagnet said:
My neighbours must be close to having me sectioned by now after watching me attacking the lawn with a kitchen knife...
I think that's what I'm going to have to do. I read earlier in the thread that slashing coarse grass is one way to get rid of it? I'm a bit disappointed actually, 3 years ago my lawn was half moss so I decided on a regime of scarifying, top dressing, feeding etc. Next year it looked remarkably better and last year it was excellent but now I've got patches of darker coarse grass sprouting up all over the place.
I have no idea where it's come from and wonder if it's from the bird seed feeder I put up in the pergola over the winter? Whatever it was it's there now and I need to get rid of it. Ideas anyone?
RichB said:
I think that's what I'm going to have to do. I read earlier in the thread that slashing coarse grass is one way to get rid of it?
I'm a bit disappointed actually, 3 years ago my lawn was half moss so I decided on a regime of scarifying, top dressing, feeding etc. Next year it looked remarkably better and last year it was excellent but now I've got patches of darker coarse grass sprouting up all over the place.
I have no idea where it's come from and wonder if it's from the bird seed feeder I put up in the pergola over the winter? Whatever it was it's there now and I need to get rid of it. Ideas anyone?
Slashing can work for some coarse grasses like yorkshire fog, but others just seem to laugh in the face of it and just about everything else that you do to them.I'm a bit disappointed actually, 3 years ago my lawn was half moss so I decided on a regime of scarifying, top dressing, feeding etc. Next year it looked remarkably better and last year it was excellent but now I've got patches of darker coarse grass sprouting up all over the place.
I have no idea where it's come from and wonder if it's from the bird seed feeder I put up in the pergola over the winter? Whatever it was it's there now and I need to get rid of it. Ideas anyone?
If the invasive grass is quite dark in colour then I'm wondering if that might be ryegrass, which coincidentally I seem to now have in some areas as well. Having got on top of the worst of the poa annua situation, an outbreak of ryegrass is just what I don't need. Likewise I'm not sure where it's come from (although I have my suspicions) but it does need dealing with.
If yours is ryegrass, then usually it doesn't tolerate close cutting at all well. It also needs much more feeding than the finer fescues. It also has limited ability to spread. I'm hoping that by really scalping the lawn prior to scarifying, then scarifying with several passes before over seeding it'll knock the ryegrass back a bit and give the finer grasses the edge. Keeping fertiliser to a minimum next year might then swing the balance if it's still being a little bit stubborn.
Rescue is supposed to be effective against ryegrass, but at that price it's not really a practical proposition for most.
RichB said:
I think that's what I'm going to have to do. I read earlier in the thread that slashing coarse grass is one way to get rid of it?
I'm a bit disappointed actually, 3 years ago my lawn was half moss so I decided on a regime of scarifying, top dressing, feeding etc. Next year it looked remarkably better and last year it was excellent but now I've got patches of darker coarse grass sprouting up all over the place.
I have no idea where it's come from and wonder if it's from the bird seed feeder I put up in the pergola over the winter? Whatever it was it's there now and I need to get rid of it. Ideas anyone?
One thing you could try, although I confess I didn't have much success but maybe I didn't find the right dosing level, is bicarbonate of soda. Moisten the grass and then sprinkle it finely, perhaps by putting a handful into a sock and bashing it with your hand. It browns the grass within an hour or two, and the aim is that the broader leaves of the coarse grasses expose it to a bigger dose. At the very least it will definitely weaken the coarse grass, and make it more vulnerable to whatever cultural methods you decide to throw at it as well.I'm a bit disappointed actually, 3 years ago my lawn was half moss so I decided on a regime of scarifying, top dressing, feeding etc. Next year it looked remarkably better and last year it was excellent but now I've got patches of darker coarse grass sprouting up all over the place.
I have no idea where it's come from and wonder if it's from the bird seed feeder I put up in the pergola over the winter? Whatever it was it's there now and I need to get rid of it. Ideas anyone?
I would have experimented further with it because I think the technique has potential, but I've decided on the nuclear option of glyphosating and reseeding from scratch.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Friday 31st July 06:18
So yesterday, I took a day off work to attack half the back lawn.
Theres a couple of areas where old trees have been taken out at some point and the ground has sunk. No problem says I.
Scarified to death then scalped down to bare earth with the mower.
Then broke it up a bit with the mattock.
I then proceeded to level the area by wheelbarrowing 4 tonnes of topsoil from the front to the back of the house. Levelled it with some wood, seeded then rolled it with the atco.
It is now smooth and fairly level and I'm hoping the seed will take in the next couple of weeks.
But sweet holy Jesus and the orphans, I can hardly move today. I am literally feeling broken.
If this doesn't work, then I am paying someone to come and sort it.
Theres a couple of areas where old trees have been taken out at some point and the ground has sunk. No problem says I.
Scarified to death then scalped down to bare earth with the mower.
Then broke it up a bit with the mattock.
I then proceeded to level the area by wheelbarrowing 4 tonnes of topsoil from the front to the back of the house. Levelled it with some wood, seeded then rolled it with the atco.
It is now smooth and fairly level and I'm hoping the seed will take in the next couple of weeks.
But sweet holy Jesus and the orphans, I can hardly move today. I am literally feeling broken.
If this doesn't work, then I am paying someone to come and sort it.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
RichB said:
...coarse grass...
...One thing you could try, although I confess I didn't have much success but maybe I didn't find the right dosing level, is bicarbonate of soda....The lawn is only small as it's really a backdrop for the planting in the garden and somewhere to sit. My wife loves gardening but it's my job to keep the lawn in shape!
Lawn showing general patchiness and the darker areas of coarse grass. Unfortunately we had a builder in a couple of weeks and we had some stuff stored on the grass which is why it's a bit faded but it also needed a good feed which I did last night.
Finally a view of the garden looking through the pergola to the trees beyond. This was taken in Oct '14 and you can just about see that the grass was in better condition at the end of last summer.
Cactussed said:
So yesterday, I took a day off work to attack half the back lawn.
Theres a couple of areas where old trees have been taken out at some point and the ground has sunk. No problem says I.
Scarified to death then scalped down to bare earth with the mower.
Then broke it up a bit with the mattock.
I then proceeded to level the area by wheelbarrowing 4 tonnes of topsoil from the front to the back of the house. Levelled it with some wood, seeded then rolled it with the atco.
It is now smooth and fairly level and I'm hoping the seed will take in the next couple of weeks.
But sweet holy Jesus and the orphans, I can hardly move today. I am literally feeling broken.
If this doesn't work, then I am paying someone to come and sort it.
Theres a couple of areas where old trees have been taken out at some point and the ground has sunk. No problem says I.
Scarified to death then scalped down to bare earth with the mower.
Then broke it up a bit with the mattock.
I then proceeded to level the area by wheelbarrowing 4 tonnes of topsoil from the front to the back of the house. Levelled it with some wood, seeded then rolled it with the atco.
It is now smooth and fairly level and I'm hoping the seed will take in the next couple of weeks.
But sweet holy Jesus and the orphans, I can hardly move today. I am literally feeling broken.
If this doesn't work, then I am paying someone to come and sort it.
I was reading that thinking "Jesus, that's a lot of work for 1 bloke" and thinking how I'd have done well to do half of that. And then read the last bit. Glad its not just me...
RichB said:
If it is a sedge then it's a real pain to get rid of as they can spread via rhizomes and not just through seeding. Many sedges will also withstand close mowing.
Normal lawn selective herbicides don't seem to affect sedges, although you might be able to find some Basagran herbicide on ebay from the US which is supposed to kill sedge whilst leaving lawn grasses unharmed, but my inclination would be to glyphosate it and then overseed the dead patches after a couple of weeks. As we're now into August anyway, perhaps incorporate the over seeding into any autumn renovations.
From the other photos it does look as though shade could be a big issue for your lawn? Does the lawn suffer from poor drainage, and is there a chance that it could have been over watered?
Salgar said:
Could anyone have a guess at how long it would take to do an acre with one of those HSS powered hollow tine aerators? I'm thinking of having a go on my weed-and-moss lawn in an effort to start rejuvenating it. Followed by many other things.
I reckon that for a walk behind aerator, an acre is going to take the best part of a (very long) day at least. 10 to 12 hours maybe?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff