Kitchen Spec & Plasterboarding thoughts/advice.

[Woody3]

Sent my plans off to a local joiner (who did a fantastic job of our windows) and have since received their kitchen quotation, however I'm slightly out of my depth with regards to their proposed specification.

We are wanting something like this:



Specification:

Door Frame: Solid Beech (Painted)
Door Panel: MDF (Painted)
Drawer Front: Solid Beech (Painted)
Drawer Box & Base: TBC
Cabinet Front Frame: Solid Beech (Painted)
Cabinet Carcass: Moisture Resistant MDF

From my research, solid Beech is a harder material than Tulipwood, thus better, I assume?

However, I'm quite concerned about the carcasses being made from M/R MDF with NO veneer. I was under the impression that a solid veneer on the MDF is a must. Is this correct?

Also what timber should be specified for the drawer box? I'd like a visible dovetail joint.


Slight O/T, but still kitchen based - Standard Plasterboard or M/R Plasterboard? The boards will be skimmed and painted. There will be a 90mm Oak upstand to the worktop, so no tiles, apart from around the cooker. Is M/R board necessary (kitchen is 5.6m x 5.6m)?

Cheers!

[Pheo]

I assume they will paint the carcasses which will protect them. Just how wet are they going to get? Most kitchen carcasses will be ruined if they get significantly wet.

Re the plasterboard my understanding its main purpose is for a vapour barrier. You wouldn't skim the silver barrier side so I don't see the benefit. Again - just how wet are you planning to get your wallsv

[Muncher]

I think singlecoil is your man for this, he will be along shortly I am sure.

[singlecoil]

^^

Beech is indeed harder than tulipwood, so probably a better bet from that point of view. Beech is perhaps more prone to warping than tulip though, and isn't often specified for kitchens.

The picture you posted shows that you are not concerned with getting the maximum amount of storage space from the units!

I would suggest you have a think about the butt hinges, I know they are traditional but so were running boards on cars. They tend to collect dust etc at the top where they protrude, they can't be adjusted and they require a catch of some kind to keep the door shut, so the door needs to be tugged open.

The protruding skirting means people will have to stand further away from the worktop than they would otherwise, as there is negative toe space.

Plain MDF is an unusual choice for kitchen cabinets, usually those people who use MDF use a veneered type. It will need to be painted or varnished anyway, of course, so maybe it doesn't matter too much?

Birch plywood is a good choice for drawers, but if you need them dovetailed then it will need to be a solid wood. Will it have a separate drawer front? So which wood to choose will depend on the choice the supplier offers. I like American Ash personally, it's strong and looks good, and where it's painted you can see the grain through the paint.

[stanwan]

T

singlecoil said:

^^


Birch plywood is a good choice for drawers, but if you need them dovetailed then it will need to be a solid wood. Will it have a separate drawer front? So which wood to choose will depend on the choice the supplier offers. I like American Ash personally, it's strong and looks good, and where it's painted you can see the grain through the paint.

I'm pretty sure I've got birch ply drawers my kitchen with dovetail joints?

[singlecoil]

stanwan said:

T

singlecoil said:

^^


Birch plywood is a good choice for drawers, but if you need them dovetailed then it will need to be a solid wood. Will it have a separate drawer front? So which wood to choose will depend on the choice the supplier offers. I like American Ash personally, it's strong and looks good, and where it's painted you can see the grain through the paint.

I'm pretty sure I've got birch ply drawers my kitchen with dovetail joints?

It can certainly be done, it's just that due to the way that birch plywood is made it can be prone to break out on the edges of the tails. But as you say, it's certainly doable but will probably lead to more rejects than using a solid wood. If I had a customer who wanted dovetails I would use a solid wood but a larger manufacturer might find the small saving in time and materials worthwhile.

[Woody3]

Thanks for the replies chaps!

I've got a meeting with the joiners in the coming weeks, so will highlight your points Singlecoil - cheers.

The reason I went with a protruding kickboard was due to reading either yours or Wozy's comment about this other style we were considering (see below) collecting dust/muck in the corners:



Plasterboard wise, I'm going standard everywhere apart from a large area behind the sink and dishwasher.

Cheers again.

[Gingerbread Man]

Behind the sink you will have tiles. Then plaster then the plasterboard. It's not going to get wet. You only get the very odd splash.

Washing machine leaking badly enough to cause havoc with the wall will have ruined the cupboards.

I'd do standard throughout.

[rsv gone!]

The difference in cost for MR plasterboard will be so minor it is a no-brainer IMO.

[rsv gone!]

Pheo said:

Re the plasterboard my understanding its main purpose is for a vapour barrier. You wouldn't skim the silver barrier side so I don't see the benefit. Again - just how wet are you planning to get your wallsv

Plasterboard isn't a vapour barrier. Standard board doesn't have the silver backing (which is protection from damp walls behind).

Timber framed houses would have a heavy poly sheet behind the plasterboard to act as a vapor barrier. This is to stop moist air from entering the structure of the walls. If this did happen then, as the air cooled, it would give up its moisture. This could the rot the frame. It is called interstitial condensation and nearly took down Barratts.

I digress.

[singlecoil]

Woody3 said:

Thanks for the replies chaps!

I've got a meeting with the joiners in the coming weeks, so will highlight your points Singlecoil - cheers.

The reason I went with a protruding kickboard was due to reading either yours or Wozy's comment about this other style we were considering (see below) collecting dust/muck in the corners:

The problem with both the styles you have shown is that the cabinet sides have been extended to form legs of fixed length. The problem with that is that normal kitchen floors are not flat, but people usually want a worktop that extends over all the units, and therefore need the units to be level at the top.

So that means that some of the legs have to be packed up to allow for where the floor dips, in the first picture this has been done and a skirting applied to hide the packing. In the second picture separate worktops have been used so differences in floor level will be repeated in differences in the heights of the individual worktops.

There's no reason why anyone making custom/bespoke kitchens can't use conventional adjustable legs and then fit a long inset plinth, thus providing the toe space that makes kitchens more comfortable to use and avoiding the dust traps you referred to earlier.

[Wozy68]

Woody3 said:

Sent my plans off to a local joiner (who did a fantastic job of our windows) and have since received their kitchen quotation, however I'm slightly out of my depth with regards to their proposed specification.

We are wanting something like this:



Specification:

Door Frame: Solid Beech (Painted)
Door Panel: MDF (Painted)
Drawer Front: Solid Beech (Painted)
Drawer Box & Base: TBC
Cabinet Front Frame: Solid Beech (Painted)
Cabinet Carcass: Moisture Resistant MDF

From my research, solid Beech is a harder material than Tulipwood, thus better, I assume?

However, I'm quite concerned about the carcasses being made from M/R MDF with NO veneer. I was under the impression that a solid veneer on the MDF is a must. Is this correct?

Also what timber should be specified for the drawer box? I'd like a visible dovetail joint.


Slight O/T, but still kitchen based - Standard Plasterboard or M/R Plasterboard? The boards will be skimmed and painted. There will be a 90mm Oak upstand to the worktop, so no tiles, apart from around the cooker. Is M/R board necessary (kitchen is 5.6m x 5.6m)?

Cheers!

To answer your questions.

I like the idea of beech as its extremely hardwearing. Though it can be a little unstable at times this should be evident when its being machined so shouldn't be too much of a worry for you.

Door Frame: Solid Beech (Painted).........Very good
Door Panel: MDF (Painted) ................Absolutely fine
Drawer Front: Solid Beech (Painted).......Very good
Drawer Box & Base: TBC....................I'd say with the rest of the spec of this kitchen it needs to be solid timber drawers and NOT just softwood
Cabinet Front Frame: Solid Beech (Painted).Very good
Cabinet Carcass: Moisture Resistant MDF ...Pants. MDF yes, but not just either painted or bare and lacquered. If they mean finished painted it will scratch, clear lacquered will not look nice IMO. If you want a nice 'Smart' top end finish get them to quote for a real wood MDF lacquered veneered finish. (Doesn't need to be moisture resistant either.

Face fitting or insert plinths? Face fitting as per your picture look great, but in all honesty are not very practical. You'll keep kicking them your feet whilst using your kitchen which will damage them. Inset plinths allow for your feet to go somewhere, so its easier to stand at your kitchen worktops.

Plasterboard? Standard stuff is fine, you're worrying to much

Finally your last picture. I'm with SC. That's a different build design to your first kitchen picture and the way the cabinet sides go down to the floor say a lot. Far more difficult to install and if the cabinets are at all in twist you will struggle to get things level, avoid.

HTH

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 19th April 08:35

[m4ckg]

Do you realise you're not supposed to plaster mr plasterboard?

[wolfracesonic]

^ good call. I think you can skim it if you prime with Thistle Bond It but seems unnecessary for a kitchen: if you've got enough moisture about to affect standard plasterboard, something's amiss.

[m4ckg]

wolfracesonic said:

^ good call. I think you can skim it if you prime with Thistle Bond It but seems unnecessary for a kitchen: if you've got enough moisture about to affect standard plasterboard, something's amiss.

Wet plaster destroys the effectiveness of the board, ideally they should just be drylined or tiled on

[wolfracesonic]

I meant MR plasterboard is unnecessary, not the Bond IT What's the point of MR plasterboard anyway? If you want a moisture resistant substrate, surely you'd use a cement type backer board

[Woody3]

Thanks everyone. I ended up using standard plasterboard throughout on the basis that if things are getting wet, then I have a bigger problem to sort out than a bit of soft plasterboard!

And thanks Wozy & Singlecoil. Will put across what you said to the Joiners.

Cheers!

[Pheo]

rsv gone! said:

Plasterboard isn't a vapour barrier. Standard board doesn't have the silver backing (which is protection from damp walls behind).

Timber framed houses would have a heavy poly sheet behind the plasterboard to act as a vapor barrier. This is to stop moist air from entering the structure of the walls. If this did happen then, as the air cooled, it would give up its moisture. This could the rot the frame. It is called interstitial condensation and nearly took down Barratts.

I digress.

Sorry I meant the MR / foil backed but didn't specify . Agree the usual stuff is about as moisture resistant S a sponge.

And RE your point on timber framed buildings etc obviously a) you know more than me b) Barratts - from what you hear I'm not surprised!