Central heating design help!
Discussion
Hi guys, I wonder if anyone can help me? I've just purchased on 1800s estate cottage and I am undergoing its restoration and repair.
The previous owners have had issues with the central heating the pressure was been lost on the combi boiler at an alarming rate, full pressure to 0 in around four hours, unfortunately they had hidden this fault quite well by filling the gap in the skirting where the water was leaking out into the kitchen with sealant, this then diverted the water outside through the limestone walls (no DPC) and began to cause subsidence, such was the fault I estimate on going for around 2 to 3 years.
Anyway as a temporary I have chopped the pipe out and joined in a piece of plastic so we can start running in a new system whilst we at least have some form of heating and water.
Because of the house construction, 18 inch limestone walls, rubble cavities, and no DPC managing temperature is quite an issue I have five fireplaces which I aim to have all working in the future but I have just unblocked them a present, okay that's the backstory this is what I want to do...
At present the main 22 mm feed and return is set into the floor and due to the living room being a lot lower than the kitchen floor the pipes are set extremely deep into the hallway floor I estimate12 inch at least access is impossible and I am not happy with how the pipework has been done due to exposing the fault listed above which was a poorly bent pipe which had cracked under expansion and contraction.
The boiler is situated under the staircase in the kitchen, my plan would be to run a 22 mm feed and return under the stairs to the bedroom number one, in the bedroom I would have a manifold which would feed the bedroom radiators then drop down to the kitchen and dining room I am aiming to hide the pipes behind door frames as I don't want to chase out the original walls.
From the manifold in the bedroom I would T the 22 mm feed and return off to another manifold situated in the roof space above the hall this would then drop down and feed the subsequent radiators in the single-storey part of the house.
I would like control of all valves on the manifolds so we can select what rooms are being heated with a thermostat in each room, something like the control system from heatmiser, this would give us far greater condensation control in rooms that we are not using a lot of the time.
I am unsure if 10 mm plastic is suitable for dropping down such would be the length of the pipework from the manifold to the radiator on but this could be something along the lines of 12 m. I am angling towards 15 mm drop downs but would like to hear opinion 10 mm would make it easy for the drop downs I suppose but need radiators to work properly as this is a very cold house such are the walls and single glazed sash windows.
So basically 22 mm feeds to manifolds and 10 or 15 mm drop downs what would be the general consensus? Also I do not want to get into the copper and plastic debate I will use copper to finish the connection to the rads. My aim is to have the joints visible and accessible.
The thick black lines are the radiators on the drawing I may be tempted to not bother with one in the utility as sorting the pipes may involve damaging limestone flag flooring to which the grade 2 police will not be too happy. I've already had them around taking photos.
Thanks,
The previous owners have had issues with the central heating the pressure was been lost on the combi boiler at an alarming rate, full pressure to 0 in around four hours, unfortunately they had hidden this fault quite well by filling the gap in the skirting where the water was leaking out into the kitchen with sealant, this then diverted the water outside through the limestone walls (no DPC) and began to cause subsidence, such was the fault I estimate on going for around 2 to 3 years.
Anyway as a temporary I have chopped the pipe out and joined in a piece of plastic so we can start running in a new system whilst we at least have some form of heating and water.
Because of the house construction, 18 inch limestone walls, rubble cavities, and no DPC managing temperature is quite an issue I have five fireplaces which I aim to have all working in the future but I have just unblocked them a present, okay that's the backstory this is what I want to do...
At present the main 22 mm feed and return is set into the floor and due to the living room being a lot lower than the kitchen floor the pipes are set extremely deep into the hallway floor I estimate12 inch at least access is impossible and I am not happy with how the pipework has been done due to exposing the fault listed above which was a poorly bent pipe which had cracked under expansion and contraction.
The boiler is situated under the staircase in the kitchen, my plan would be to run a 22 mm feed and return under the stairs to the bedroom number one, in the bedroom I would have a manifold which would feed the bedroom radiators then drop down to the kitchen and dining room I am aiming to hide the pipes behind door frames as I don't want to chase out the original walls.
From the manifold in the bedroom I would T the 22 mm feed and return off to another manifold situated in the roof space above the hall this would then drop down and feed the subsequent radiators in the single-storey part of the house.
I would like control of all valves on the manifolds so we can select what rooms are being heated with a thermostat in each room, something like the control system from heatmiser, this would give us far greater condensation control in rooms that we are not using a lot of the time.
I am unsure if 10 mm plastic is suitable for dropping down such would be the length of the pipework from the manifold to the radiator on but this could be something along the lines of 12 m. I am angling towards 15 mm drop downs but would like to hear opinion 10 mm would make it easy for the drop downs I suppose but need radiators to work properly as this is a very cold house such are the walls and single glazed sash windows.
So basically 22 mm feeds to manifolds and 10 or 15 mm drop downs what would be the general consensus? Also I do not want to get into the copper and plastic debate I will use copper to finish the connection to the rads. My aim is to have the joints visible and accessible.
The thick black lines are the radiators on the drawing I may be tempted to not bother with one in the utility as sorting the pipes may involve damaging limestone flag flooring to which the grade 2 police will not be too happy. I've already had them around taking photos.
Thanks,
I did the same in my 1800's house the pipes were on drops from above on the surface which I hate so i chased the walls out to hide in trunking.
You can use 10mm pipe but make sure that the water is clean after all the work is done as it will block up easier (over time) than 15mm if the system isn't flushed of all the flux and debris.
Our house had old rubble stone walls with mud inside so like you I was reluctant to chase out too deep a chanel so I did the main circuit in 22mm, teed off into 15mm and down into plastic coated 10mm copper for in the chase and straight back into 15mm where it popped out behind the radiator. The max length of 10mm I used was about 8m long but it supplies a 1600x600 double panel rad with heat no problem.
You can use 10mm pipe but make sure that the water is clean after all the work is done as it will block up easier (over time) than 15mm if the system isn't flushed of all the flux and debris.
Our house had old rubble stone walls with mud inside so like you I was reluctant to chase out too deep a chanel so I did the main circuit in 22mm, teed off into 15mm and down into plastic coated 10mm copper for in the chase and straight back into 15mm where it popped out behind the radiator. The max length of 10mm I used was about 8m long but it supplies a 1600x600 double panel rad with heat no problem.
I would just pipe it up like a normal system coming off the 22mm main feeds and drop down to smaller pipe but why not use all copper 10mm copper bends easily is cheap enough and if soldered correct you won't have to touch it again seems a shame to use plastic and have massive ugly fittings on show?. I would also have a look at the honeywell evohome system where you use motorised TRV'S to control each room individually as reckon it will work out cheaper and you won't have hidden valves under floors and stuff that will be harder to get to at a later date?.
Manifolds will be accessible in the bedroom and the roof space.
Shouldn't have any ugly fittings on display at all, there will be a continuous pipe from mani to rad minus the connection to copper for the final bit. If I could come out the wall behind the rad and connect up like they do in new builds that would be even better.
Shouldn't have any ugly fittings on display at all, there will be a continuous pipe from mani to rad minus the connection to copper for the final bit. If I could come out the wall behind the rad and connect up like they do in new builds that would be even better.
Thats what I meant you will have a big connector from plastic to copper which will either have to be hid in the wall or behind the rad. Plastic blocks up easily mind i know it won't seem like it now but in 10-15 years time plastic can become a nightmare I have worked in a few houses where the plastic has blocked solid on 3m drops in the wall and the whole lot has to be accessed and replaced.
So you will have a plastic 90degree elbow buried in the concrete with 15mm copper pipe going straight up into the rad valve.
http://www.plumbase.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-redu...
http://www.plumbase.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-redu...
Edited by moles on Wednesday 6th May 18:42
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