DIY electrics

[Alucidnation]

And also anyone else that might visit, or even a future owner.

Some of things i have found that were done by previous owners of properties who thought they knew it all were fking horrendous.

[jason61c]

stuart313 said:

jason61c said:

stuart313 said:

Ok I'm the first to admit a lot of bad electrical work is done by so called professional electricians, most of them I would imagine are the new breed type. You know the ones, spunk a couple of grand on a course and get registered somehow, they are then free to make your house a death trap.

Just last month we took a flat roof off a 2 year old extension to make it a pitched one, you should have seen the electrics (and everything else) done by the poles, I'm gutted I didn't take any pictures but it was as bad as I have ever seen, loads of junction boxes that looked like this

.

So AJH Electricians, how do you know it was "done by the poles"? Or was it a copy of the daily mail on your dashboard?

Firstly that just a random picture of the internet, as stated I didn't take my own pics of the wiring but nice piece of detective work there.

Secondly not only did it look like it was done by poles, the woman said she had Polish builders in to do the job in the first place so its a pretty safe bet they were poles. The brickwork was that wonky it had to be rendered.

Fairly obvious if you click on the link. I'm amazed you can identify the nationality of the person who's done wiring from a picture, especially one youve pulled off the internet to make such an accusation.

[Neil - YVM]

jason61c said:

stuart313 said:

jason61c said:

stuart313 said:

Ok I'm the first to admit a lot of bad electrical work is done by so called professional electricians, most of them I would imagine are the new breed type. You know the ones, spunk a couple of grand on a course and get registered somehow, they are then free to make your house a death trap.

Just last month we took a flat roof off a 2 year old extension to make it a pitched one, you should have seen the electrics (and everything else) done by the poles, I'm gutted I didn't take any pictures but it was as bad as I have ever seen, loads of junction boxes that looked like this

.

So AJH Electricians, how do you know it was "done by the poles"? Or was it a copy of the daily mail on your dashboard?

Firstly that just a random picture of the internet, as stated I didn't take my own pics of the wiring but nice piece of detective work there.

Secondly not only did it look like it was done by poles, the woman said she had Polish builders in to do the job in the first place so its a pretty safe bet they were poles. The brickwork was that wonky it had to be rendered.

Fairly obvious if you click on the link. I'm amazed you can identify the nationality of the person who's done wiring from a picture, especially one youve pulled off the internet to make such an accusation.

Though quite easy if the customer tells you the 'tradesmen' were Poles.

[jason61c]

Or builder! Pulling pics off the internet to try and scare people is an niceic trick isn't it?

[LookAtMyCat]

rich83 said:

Do you want to come and hold my hand when I get in my car and drive at 10 leptons? ;-)

Speed limits. Again, so you don't kill yourself/wife/kids/someone else.

A lot of regulations are there to protect people.

[stuart313]

jason61c said:

stuart313 said:

jason61c said:

stuart313 said:

Ok I'm the first to admit a lot of bad electrical work is done by so called professional electricians, most of them I would imagine are the new breed type. You know the ones, spunk a couple of grand on a course and get registered somehow, they are then free to make your house a death trap.

Just last month we took a flat roof off a 2 year old extension to make it a pitched one, you should have seen the electrics (and everything else) done by the poles, I'm gutted I didn't take any pictures but it was as bad as I have ever seen, loads of junction boxes that looked like this

.

So AJH Electricians, how do you know it was "done by the poles"? Or was it a copy of the daily mail on your dashboard?

Firstly that just a random picture of the internet, as stated I didn't take my own pics of the wiring but nice piece of detective work there.

Secondly not only did it look like it was done by poles, the woman said she had Polish builders in to do the job in the first place so its a pretty safe bet they were poles. The brickwork was that wonky it had to be rendered.

Fairly obvious if you click on the link. I'm amazed you can identify the nationality of the person who's done wiring from a picture, especially one youve pulled off the internet to make such an accusation.

What the fk are you going on about, look, I went to a job where the owner had previously had poles in to build her an extension. The builder took the flat roof off and put a pitched one on, when the ceiling was pulled down it exposed the horrendous wiring that the poles had done. I didn't take any pictures of it so I pulled a random picture off the internet to compare what the wiring was like. HTH.

Having said that, the picture I posted looks like it was done by the polaks.

Edited by stuart313 on Saturday 16th May 17:53

[hairyben]

Zulu 10 said:

The reason is simple:

Your industry spent serious effort in lobbying H M Government to change the Building Regulations and introduce Part P.

The effect of this is that I, and many like me, are now forced either to call in tradesmen or to have the work subjected to independent oversight. (Which as the exmaple of my own house demonstrates, shows that oversight isn't up to much.)

Now that would be entirely sensible and acceptable if the quality of the tradesmen who have obtained the qualifications were of a decent standard, and if the industry introduced a weeding and culling process to remove those who are not.

We are therefore in a position where I apparently cannot do the work myself, but there is no enforced ongoing quality standard for those who are supposed to be professional.

The lack of oversight in the example I quoted in my own house being just one example of the basis of my cynicism.

As an aside: I work in an industry which is probably the second most heavily regulated in the country, and where the standards ARE maintained which I why I get so wound up about the behaviour of the electrical trades bodies – they want the job protection, but they don’t appear to want the responsibility which goes with it.

You'll find, if you care to enquire, the bulk of "my industry" (there you go again with your generalising) didn't like or want and certainly didn't campaign for the worthless waste of time that is part P and are as frustrated as anyone about it.

Your attitude is like claiming it's unfair you can't drive a 40 ton lorry without an annoying licence while "proving" all lorry drivers are terrible because some of them have crashes.

You're correct in your point that new house may never have seen a qualified and/or professional sparks, I know as I've seen exactly how that little segment of the industry operate, but extrapolating it to attack the whole industry is asinine

[Mr GrimNasty]

LookAtMyCat said:

A lot of regulations are there to protect people.

And a lot is there to make money for vested interests - hence why the government was heavily lobbied to bring about regulation when there was no significant problem with the safety of fixed wiring, and the regulation is actually causing a deterioration in safety according to the subjective opinion of the OP, and others, in fact to such an extent, that there have been serious industry rumblings to do away with Part P on the grounds of safety!

Regulation has pushed the cost of an electrician through the roof, creating a market for 'Poles' in the country for a few months, and the temptation to DIY.

Of course 99% of electrics DIY is done by intelligent people to the same or a better standard than a pro., but goes unnoticed because it's fine.

Most fires and deaths/injuries are and will always be caused by freak unavoidable circumstances, faulty appliances, and end-user ignorance/abuse.

[jas xjr]

ColinM50 said:

Absolutely right. Leave professional works to the professionals.

You'd never get an amateur doing something like this, takes a true fesshnal.

Reminds me of India

[matt-t7z3f]

hairyben said:

You'll find, if you care to enquire, the bulk of "my industry" (there you go again with your generalising) didn't like or want and certainly didn't campaign for the worthless waste of time that is part P and are as frustrated as anyone about it.

Your attitude is like claiming it's unfair you can't drive a 40 ton lorry without an annoying licence while "proving" all lorry drivers are terrible because some of them have crashes.

You're correct in your point that new house may never have seen a qualified and/or professional sparks, I know as I've seen exactly how that little segment of the industry operate, but extrapolating it to attack the whole industry is asinine

Yep, all part P does in my experiance/opinion is makes it easier for the cowboys to undercut the genuine sparks by ignoring Part P!!

[Alucidnation]

Zulu 10 said:

And what therefore is the industry doing in the way of campaigning and lobby to have it revoked/amended? Hmm, thought so…

From April 2013 Part P was amended considerably in favour of the home owner.

[mildmannered]

One of the issues is simply cost. Obviously the demographic of this website means that the average user thinks nothing of "dropping" £500 on having two sockets fitted. However, in the real world, there are many people struggling to simply get by. Before all of this regulation and registration schemes, the cost of a sparky was much, much lower.

I also think this is the first step of a very slippery slope. The next thing will be a requirement for domestic homeowners to have a regular test in order to insure their homes.

Someone has touched on the subject of car maintenance being targeted next, I'm sure it will happen. Being told you can't change your own brake pads, then having to watch a spotty teenage "professional" do it...

[Simpo Two]

LookAtMyCat said:

rich83 said:

Im not sure why it ever became someone else's business what I do to the house that I bought.

To stop you killing yourself/wife/kids because you think you know a lot more than you actually do.

And this is the rub - 'pros' thinking that everyone else is an incompetent idiot. Some are, some aren't. When I need help I'll get back-up - and I'm intelligent enough to know when I need help.

[LookAtMyCat]

Simpo Two said:

And this is the rub - 'pros' thinking that everyone else is an incompetent idiot. Some are, some aren't. When I need help I'll get back-up - and I'm intelligent enough to know when I need help.

I'm not an electrician so I don't know a huge amount about that trade, but it applies across any skilled trade. I do all my own electrics but only under 'essential electrics' (they clued up a lot of heating engineers did their own wiring).

I served 7 years as an apprentice with a heating engineer. I spent 11 months at college learning a book that is 3 inches thick and taking 8 exams to get my ACS for gas (which allows you to join Gas Safe). You might be a really clever guy. Really clever. You still, spending as much time as you like on the internet, reading books, will not come anywhere close to the knowledge or skill I have in this trade. And thinking you do; is the problem.

There are plenty of clever people about. I work for quite a few. Very wealthy guys who work in very technical fields. But, they're also clever enough to ring me up and pay for my services. Because they know full well I can do a better job in half the time and i've done it 100 times before.

[jas xjr]

LookAtMyCat said:

I'm not an electrician so I don't know a huge amount about that trade, but it applies across any skilled trade. I do all my own electrics but only under 'essential electrics' (they clued up a lot of heating engineers did their own wiring).

I served 7 years as an apprentice with a heating engineer. I spent 11 months at college learning a book that is 3 inches thick and taking 8 exams to get my ACS for gas (which allows you to join Gas Safe). You might be a really clever guy. Really clever. You still, spending as much time as you like on the internet, reading books, will not come anywhere close to the knowledge or skill I have in this trade. And thinking you do; is the problem.

There are plenty of clever people about. I work for quite a few. Very wealthy guys who work in very technical fields. But, they're also clever enough to ring me up and pay for my services. Because they know full well I can do a better job in half the time and i've done it 100 times before.

I have to admit you must be really clever to learn a book three inches thick.

I have employed people who were gorgi / gas safe registered. Clueless clowns would describe a few of them. I wonder now how thick their books were.

[mildmannered]

He's only a gas fitter with an over inflated opinion of himself, or a troll. Not sure which?

[jas xjr]

mildmannered said:

He's only a gas fitter with an over inflated opinion of himself, or a troll. Not sure which?

Has to be some kind of troll. Nobody measures a book by the inch. Have to admit he fooled me. I have been on Stella all evening,bit dodgy I know but I am poor with ideas above my station, I just wish I could afford a wife to beat

[dudleybloke]

My family have a strange logic.
I'm the only one who's colorblind and I'm the one who gets called to do any electrical work.

[uncinqsix]

Simpo Two said:

And this is the rub - 'pros' thinking that everyone else is an incompetent idiot. Some are, some aren't. When I need help I'll get back-up - and I'm intelligent enough to know when I need help.

This. Few things are beyond the abilities of a competent DIYer who takes the time to find out exactly how to do the job right, and who knows his limits. Being technically inclined helps of course, and I think most people get into trouble because they don't know what they don't know.

[EggsBenedict]

^^^ Sensible post.

And those 'tarring the whole industry becaus of the actions of a few' - remember that the OP pretty well does that for DIY'ers. Lots of people working on their own home are competent. Some are not. Overall, most domestic electrics are not complex, but as in any part of DIY, there's going to be the odd DIY bodger, just as you find crap tradesmen. The result in electrics is the same - it's downright dangerous mostly.

Edited by EggsBenedict on Sunday 17th May 08:13