Limestone Floor Tiles - Laying Tips
Discussion
I've just bought 85m2 of these Limestone Tiles
The sub-base consists of a wet UFH system, covered by Keracem Eco screed.
I've laid tiles before, but nothing remotely on this scale, nor any tiles so large (900x560mm).
The tiles are to be laid at 56cm wide x random lengths.
From my initial research, I've discovered the following:
1 - I need to use white flexible adhesive
2 - Install a movement matt between the screed and the tile - Ditra or Dural - the latter seems to be somewhat cheaper than the former - are there any pro's/con's from either?
3 - Movement joints in the screed must mirror in the floor tiles
4 - I need a wet tile cutter - any recommendations? Ideally I'll buy something decent secondhand.
5 - Do I seal the tile before I lay, then seal again before I grout?
6 - We'd like wide grout joints (like the photo above) - are there "spaces" out there that can achieve a wide joint?
None of my walls are parallel or square, so it's going to take a bit of setting out.
Can anyone give me any tips (besides saying "get a tiler in" haha)?
Any advice/help would be much appreciated - I'm giving myself 6 weeks of research before I lay the first tile!
Cheers.
The sub-base consists of a wet UFH system, covered by Keracem Eco screed.
I've laid tiles before, but nothing remotely on this scale, nor any tiles so large (900x560mm).
The tiles are to be laid at 56cm wide x random lengths.
From my initial research, I've discovered the following:
1 - I need to use white flexible adhesive
2 - Install a movement matt between the screed and the tile - Ditra or Dural - the latter seems to be somewhat cheaper than the former - are there any pro's/con's from either?
3 - Movement joints in the screed must mirror in the floor tiles
4 - I need a wet tile cutter - any recommendations? Ideally I'll buy something decent secondhand.
5 - Do I seal the tile before I lay, then seal again before I grout?
6 - We'd like wide grout joints (like the photo above) - are there "spaces" out there that can achieve a wide joint?
None of my walls are parallel or square, so it's going to take a bit of setting out.
Can anyone give me any tips (besides saying "get a tiler in" haha)?
Any advice/help would be much appreciated - I'm giving myself 6 weeks of research before I lay the first tile!
Cheers.
Hi Woody - I will help where I can, but I am an owner not a tiler so do listen to others!
We're having tiles laid at the moment - note that these are not Limestone though so the answers may be different. We originally wanted 1200mmx600mm but neither the tile supplier, UFH supplier, architect, builder nor tiler were happy with that size - eventually you have to give in to the overwhelming objections of others who, presumably, know better! (laying over thin UFH and across a couple of different substrates)
Answers to below:
1. Yes - I will try to find out the make used by our tiler but that wont be until the weekend (sorry)
2. We originally had a movement matt but this was then removed - not sure why, may have been the change in tile choice and / or adhesive but I know the tile and floor suppliers agreed with the variation - I will try to find out why
3. Yes - a joint over any gaps where there's different flooring should be a flexible sealant grout (the larger tile suppliers sell matching grout & sealant, although it's not the cheapest) - note that this is very important where the insulation is different as well - we've had an extension and needed a gap where part of the floor was the simple old concrete and the other part had modern insulation
4. Not sure if it's different for limestone, our tiler is doing the job with a small angle grinder (diamond blade) and the largest tile cutter I've ever seen!
5. Suspect different as we're not using limestone
6. Yes, absolutely, there's a wide range of spacers out there, just move away from the DIY sheds and you'll find them
Hope the above helps
We're having tiles laid at the moment - note that these are not Limestone though so the answers may be different. We originally wanted 1200mmx600mm but neither the tile supplier, UFH supplier, architect, builder nor tiler were happy with that size - eventually you have to give in to the overwhelming objections of others who, presumably, know better! (laying over thin UFH and across a couple of different substrates)
Answers to below:
1. Yes - I will try to find out the make used by our tiler but that wont be until the weekend (sorry)
2. We originally had a movement matt but this was then removed - not sure why, may have been the change in tile choice and / or adhesive but I know the tile and floor suppliers agreed with the variation - I will try to find out why
3. Yes - a joint over any gaps where there's different flooring should be a flexible sealant grout (the larger tile suppliers sell matching grout & sealant, although it's not the cheapest) - note that this is very important where the insulation is different as well - we've had an extension and needed a gap where part of the floor was the simple old concrete and the other part had modern insulation
4. Not sure if it's different for limestone, our tiler is doing the job with a small angle grinder (diamond blade) and the largest tile cutter I've ever seen!
5. Suspect different as we're not using limestone
6. Yes, absolutely, there's a wide range of spacers out there, just move away from the DIY sheds and you'll find them
Hope the above helps
1 - I need to use white flexible adhesive
Yes, as you have a solid floor single part flexi should by ok
2 - Install a movement matt between the screed and the tile - Ditra or Dural - the latter seems to be somewhat cheaper than the former - are there any pro's/con's from either?
No, as you have a solid floor
3 - Movement joints in the screed must mirror in the floor tiles
Do you have movement joints installed in the screed?
Is this 1 room or several rooms?
4 - I need a wet tile cutter - any recommendations? Ideally I'll buy something decent secondhand.
Yes as you will get a better cut!, or just a disc cutter!
5 - Do I seal the tile before I lay, then seal again before I grout?
Lay, keeping surface clean, once laid clean surface and seal, grout and the reseal.
6 - We'd like wide grout joints (like the photo above) - are there "spaces" out there that can achieve a wide joint?
With this type of tile spacers don't work, lay by eye and keep the joints uniform.
As for setting out, (depending on what room you have) you need to look at where you will end up cut wise! you don't want little bits.
pick a point in the middle and work from there,
Yes, as you have a solid floor single part flexi should by ok
2 - Install a movement matt between the screed and the tile - Ditra or Dural - the latter seems to be somewhat cheaper than the former - are there any pro's/con's from either?
No, as you have a solid floor
3 - Movement joints in the screed must mirror in the floor tiles
Do you have movement joints installed in the screed?
Is this 1 room or several rooms?
4 - I need a wet tile cutter - any recommendations? Ideally I'll buy something decent secondhand.
Yes as you will get a better cut!, or just a disc cutter!
5 - Do I seal the tile before I lay, then seal again before I grout?
Lay, keeping surface clean, once laid clean surface and seal, grout and the reseal.
6 - We'd like wide grout joints (like the photo above) - are there "spaces" out there that can achieve a wide joint?
With this type of tile spacers don't work, lay by eye and keep the joints uniform.
As for setting out, (depending on what room you have) you need to look at where you will end up cut wise! you don't want little bits.
pick a point in the middle and work from there,
I've done something like you, but with slate, albeit over a much smaller area as it was just one room. 600mm by 400mm tiles, circa 3/8" to 1/2" thick, arranged like brickwork with half overlap. I'd not done anything remotely similar before so it was all a bit of a learning experience.
Rather than Ditra matting I used hardiebacker board on top of the UFH to give me a base to tile on and to help with thermal stability - the supplier of the tiles said this wasn't needed and the mapei adhesive they supply had enough flexibility for UFH, but I'm a bit paranoid and tend to over-engineer solutions. What I ended up with wasn't moving short of an earthquake
. I also wanted the wide spacing between tiles to fill with grout so bought a few lengths of 9mm dowel from B&Q and cut them into 2" pieces to act as spacers.
I measured between opposing walls to find the centre of the room in both axes (because inevitably it wasn't square), drew two lines in black permanent marker through it at right angles and tiled from there. I also bought a 6' long metal spirit level which was very useful for both keeping the edges of a run of tiles in a straight line and ensuring that they were all approximately level.
Bought a £80 wet cutter from screwfix (Erbauer, I think) to cut them, but I was only doing 11sq m, not 85. It did the job fine, clean straight cuts. I treated it as a disposable item, as I'm unlikely to put a stone floor down anywhere else - it's only a small bungalow - but consider myself to have got my money's worth from it.
It's been down about 9 months, so all through winter, and no problems. Have to say the warm floor is really nice first thing in the morning on a cold day.
edit - I just read through that, apologies for the random switching between Imperial and SI units!
Rather than Ditra matting I used hardiebacker board on top of the UFH to give me a base to tile on and to help with thermal stability - the supplier of the tiles said this wasn't needed and the mapei adhesive they supply had enough flexibility for UFH, but I'm a bit paranoid and tend to over-engineer solutions. What I ended up with wasn't moving short of an earthquake
. I also wanted the wide spacing between tiles to fill with grout so bought a few lengths of 9mm dowel from B&Q and cut them into 2" pieces to act as spacers.I measured between opposing walls to find the centre of the room in both axes (because inevitably it wasn't square), drew two lines in black permanent marker through it at right angles and tiled from there. I also bought a 6' long metal spirit level which was very useful for both keeping the edges of a run of tiles in a straight line and ensuring that they were all approximately level.
Bought a £80 wet cutter from screwfix (Erbauer, I think) to cut them, but I was only doing 11sq m, not 85. It did the job fine, clean straight cuts. I treated it as a disposable item, as I'm unlikely to put a stone floor down anywhere else - it's only a small bungalow - but consider myself to have got my money's worth from it.
It's been down about 9 months, so all through winter, and no problems. Have to say the warm floor is really nice first thing in the morning on a cold day.
edit - I just read through that, apologies for the random switching between Imperial and SI units!
Edited by onomatopoeia on Wednesday 20th May 09:21
I'll be watching this with interest I have 50 m2 of limestone to go down in the mext few months.
How long have you had the screed layed/UFH up and running ? There is a chance that cracking may develop (it has with ours) and a decoupling mat may be a good idea.
Also, because we've been living on our slab for a year it's been recommended that we scrabble/grind the surface to give a good key.
How long have you had the screed layed/UFH up and running ? There is a chance that cracking may develop (it has with ours) and a decoupling mat may be a good idea.
Also, because we've been living on our slab for a year it's been recommended that we scrabble/grind the surface to give a good key.
Thanks for the replies chaps!
There's lots to take in.
Sleepezy - if you could find out those few things from your tiler, that would be fantastic. Will be interesting to see the reason why he hasn't gone with a decoupling mat...
I'm still unsure if to have a decoupling mat or not. It's an extra £750 + adhesive, so not exactly cheap...
This is the area to be tiled. The movement joints are:
- between the Kitchen and TV area along the dim line 2725mm
- in the doorway between the TV area and Bootroom
- in the double doorway between the TV area and Orangery
I'm not sure on the orientation of the tiles tbh. Should the "free lengths" of the tiles be running the full length of the room, or would you turn them 90deg? I will be tiling underneath the kitchen units.
I do have an old, small, wet tile cutter, but unsure if it is up to the task. Will give it a go and see what happens.
Regarding the UFH and screed - it's been down since November and *touch wood* no issues/cracks as of yet and it's very level/flat! It was a fast drying screed, as in we could have laid tiles on it after 24 hours if we wanted to, but didn't.
Is there anything else I need to consider?
ETA - just to clarify, not that it makes much difference, but there's actually 75m2 (85m2 is including wastage).
There's lots to take in.
Sleepezy - if you could find out those few things from your tiler, that would be fantastic. Will be interesting to see the reason why he hasn't gone with a decoupling mat...
I'm still unsure if to have a decoupling mat or not. It's an extra £750 + adhesive, so not exactly cheap...
This is the area to be tiled. The movement joints are:
- between the Kitchen and TV area along the dim line 2725mm
- in the doorway between the TV area and Bootroom
- in the double doorway between the TV area and Orangery
I'm not sure on the orientation of the tiles tbh. Should the "free lengths" of the tiles be running the full length of the room, or would you turn them 90deg? I will be tiling underneath the kitchen units.
I do have an old, small, wet tile cutter, but unsure if it is up to the task. Will give it a go and see what happens.
Regarding the UFH and screed - it's been down since November and *touch wood* no issues/cracks as of yet and it's very level/flat! It was a fast drying screed, as in we could have laid tiles on it after 24 hours if we wanted to, but didn't.
Is there anything else I need to consider?
ETA - just to clarify, not that it makes much difference, but there's actually 75m2 (85m2 is including wastage).
Spudler said:
Woody3 said:
I'm still unsure if to have a decoupling mat or not.
.
Nothing to be unsure of, you don't need it..
Solid floor = single part flexible adhesive, simple.
If you have movement joints installed in the floor then you will need to follow them through to the tiles!
I use this all the time..
http://www.netweber.co.uk/tile-fixing-products/pro...
Well I've started!
About 50% through the first phase. I'm laying about 9 flags an evening when I get in from work, so I'm going steady, but progressing.
My question turns to grout. The majority of my joints (90% plus) are around 15-20mm, but in a few very small areas, the joint is around 30-35mm wide (due to the natural cut of the stone). I can't seem to find any suppliers that produce grout that is suitable with joints this wide. 20mm seems to be the maximum compatible width.
Anyone know of any suitable grouts on the market or an alternative?
About 50% through the first phase. I'm laying about 9 flags an evening when I get in from work, so I'm going steady, but progressing.
My question turns to grout. The majority of my joints (90% plus) are around 15-20mm, but in a few very small areas, the joint is around 30-35mm wide (due to the natural cut of the stone). I can't seem to find any suppliers that produce grout that is suitable with joints this wide. 20mm seems to be the maximum compatible width.
Anyone know of any suitable grouts on the market or an alternative?
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