Green deal solar panels - pros and cons?

[V12 AMG]

We've been offered 14 free panels with free installation and maintenance.

As far as I understand it if we save £200 per year on our electric bill, that electric bill is taken to pay towards the "loan" on the panels.

In addition to that, the feed in tarrif is split 50/50 with half coming to us and half going to the installation company.

Are these reasonable terms?

What questions should I be asking?

Presumably not all panels are alike in terms of efficiency etc? Free ones = cheaper quality ones?

What about resale of the house? We think we'd like to move in around 5 years but the panels will be on for 20-25 years. Are there any predicted implications?

There will be a credit check but what implications could that cause for the future?

Sorry for so many questions! Any answers will be much appreciated.

[bobtail4x4]

you will struggle to sell the house in 5 years, as somone else will have "rights" over the roof,

unless you buy your own panels I would avoid,

in fact looking at the current feed in tarrifs I wouldnt do it nowadays.

the free panel firms are usually ex replacement window types with all the lies and skulduggery that goes with it.

[Condi]

^^^ that, basically.

I think solar can still pay, but you need to own the panels rather than letting someone else rent your roof!

[btcc123]

With these schemes where they give you the panels free and the electricity you generate pays off the loan is a con.

Many companies have been struck off for lying to people about the amount of energy the panels will produce.In reality it is possible that your system will not generate the electricity to repay the monthly load payments so the loan will be extended from 25 to 35 years.If you use any of the electricity to reduce your bills theres less money to pay the loan then it takes 40+ years to repay the load.

You may not gain anything financially but the company will have a reasonable investment using your house.

I would recommend against it.

[roofer]

£200 ? Is it worth it ?

btcc has it bang on.

[Paul Drawmer]

I've had a 3.88kwP installation for over 4 years.
Each month I record the total power produced, how much I import and how much I export. I can see how much I use in total and how much I actually save.

Solar PV generates power only in good daylight, that happens to coincide with when the household uses it less. Our house is always occupied, so if your house is empty during the day your savings on power bought will be less than mine.

I've just checked the spreadsheet and over the last 12 months we saved £176.

[was8v]

Ideally you need a way of storing the energy in the day for use at night. In the absence of Tesla's new battery storage, something like these will help by heating your water:

http://www.immersun.co.uk/
http://solarimmersion.co.uk/

[Timmy40]

V12 AMG said:

We've been offered 14 free panels

V12 AMG said:

that electric bill is taken to pay towards the "loan" on the panels.

So not free at all then?

[Paul Drawmer]

was8v said:

Ideally you need a way of storing the energy in the day for use at night. In the absence of Tesla's new battery storage, something like these will help by heating your water:

http://www.immersun.co.uk/
http://solarimmersion.co.uk/

Yes but...
The company putting the panels on the roof isn't going to pay for or install such a device. The home owner must do that.
Then there may be a clause in the rent a roof agreement that restricts such devices, as they will reduce the amount exported.

[fadeaway]

Which covered these deals with all the pros and cons



http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-s...

My favourite bit is that if you have to need to remove the panels temporarily to get maintenance done on your roof you have to pay the solar company compensation for the money they'd missed out due to the panels being out of action.

[btcc123]

Paul Drawmer said:

I've had a 3.88kwP installation for over 4 years.
Each month I record the total power produced, how much I import and how much I export. I can see how much I use in total and how much I actually save.

Solar PV generates power only in good daylight, that happens to coincide with when the household uses it less. Our house is always occupied, so if your house is empty during the day your savings on power bought will be less than mine.

I've just checked the spreadsheet and over the last 12 months we saved £176.

So you have had your solar panels for 4 years,did you buy them or get them free but have to pay then off from the tarif.

If you bought the same system now it would cost about a third of what you paid so I think you may have lost a lot of money.

So to have the solar panels on your roof for the last 12 months and you saved £176 - is it really worth it.

[V12 AMG]

Thank you all very much.
I'm sure it would have been a mistake to go ahead with the panels.

[a311]

Sounds like a bit of a con for what you'll potentially save in a year it wouldn't be worth it to me.

A bloke at paid for a load of panels himself quite a few years ago when the guaranteed price per unit that you sold to the grid was higher than it it today-don't know how true this is just how he explained it at the time. I guess you need to just weigh up the capital cost vs what you'll save and in either case be pretty certain you'll be staying put inyour home for a while.

[was8v]

Paul Drawmer said:

Yes but...
The company putting the panels on the roof isn't going to pay for or install such a device. The home owner must do that.
Then there may be a clause in the rent a roof agreement that restricts such devices, as they will reduce the amount exported.

Income from these domestic feed in tariffs is based on an estimate, its not actually metered.

So they don't care how much is exported. In fact the grid system struggles so much with the peaks and troughs of solar and wind production that the national grid would prefer you to use at to point of production - look at how much they pay turbine operators each year to turn OFF turbines.....

The whole system is a mess IMO and is ripe for a game changing regulatory and infrastructure shake up.

[Paul Drawmer]

btcc123 said:

So you have had your solar panels for 4 years,did you buy them or get them free but have to pay then off from the tarif.

If you bought the same system now it would cost about a third of what you paid so I think you may have lost a lot of money.

So to have the solar panels on your roof for the last 12 months and you saved £176 - is it really worth it.

I bought my system outright and it cost a LOT more than the same system would today. BUT the rate I get paid for generating is much more than the current rate as well. In fact it works better for me because the size of investment was limited by the size of the roof. Even if today's return on investment was the same, I would only be able to make a smaller investment.

It isn't possible to compare financials due to the changes in initial cost and tariffs. I haven't 'lost' money; I have invested it in my system and at the present it looks as if I will get the capital fully returned in less than 8 years. roi at present is 13.5%pa.

[andy43]

MellisL said:

I am also among those people, who prefer making a real research before buying something, especially when it comes to solar panels, as it is quite expensive purchase and we hope to get good quality. This forum appeared of a real help, because here I found links to websites with calculations and so on. I can also recommend to start with some general information about becoming energy efficient (it is presented here http://solarpanelscompany.com/blog/becoming-energy... in a clear way) and decide what s good and what is bad for your house and your family.

I prefer navitron or the greenbuildingforum.

[ex1]

Paul Drawmer said:

I bought my system outright and it cost a LOT more than the same system would today. BUT the rate I get paid for generating is much more than the current rate as well. In fact it works better for me because the size of investment was limited by the size of the roof. Even if today's return on investment was the same, I would only be able to make a smaller investment.

It isn't possible to compare financials due to the changes in initial cost and tariffs. I haven't 'lost' money; I have invested it in my system and at the present it looks as if I will get the capital fully returned in less than 8 years. roi at present is 13.5%pa.

Thats sounds like a pretty good return. Have you looked at energy storage? I have seen a few companies selling units that act like a large leisure battery and allow you to store during the day and use during the evening.

[Graham]

The income and savings ( assuming you buy the panels your self are very straight forward)


1) for every single kwh the panels generate you will get the feed in tariff of 12.92p ( as of 1st july 2015) this is recorded via a generation meter which every install has
2) on a domestic install its unusual for an export meter to be installed so they assume you use 50% and you get 4.58p for that 50%
3) any electricity you use thats generated by the solar you are not importing do you SAVE having to buy that in.


Im fortunate enough to have seen the data from around 70 installs over the last 5 years as we setup the data loggers, and after all that I had 3.5kwh fitted to my house in december so make of that what you will.

in the last month which is summer so the peak of what it will produce.

the house used 356.6kwh and my panels generated 450.8kwh

of that house consumption 164.9 kwh was supplied by the solar and i had to buy from the grid 191.7kwh

so for the summer months im generating almost 50% of my electricity for free... with a bit more tinkering and using dish washer, washing machine etc during the day i could get that higher..

so i will receive approx £ 60 for feed in tariff ( my rates around 13.5) and about £10 for export. i will also have saved around £20 off my electricity bill.


imho the rent a roof schemes only work if your staying in your house for a long time and there is someone at home during the day. my inlaws have a rent a roof 4kw the fit goest to the company and they just get the energy savings. but that works for them.

[Graham]

Paul Drawmer said:

It isn't possible to compare financials due to the changes in initial cost and tariffs. I haven't 'lost' money; I have invested it in my system and at the present it looks as if I will get the capital fully returned in less than 8 years. roi at present is 13.5%pa.

you can compare the rate of return and as the fit has dropped so has the capital cost of the system so a roi of 10-13% is still achievable. and guaranteed for 20 years ( your is probably 25years if its a 45p system)

[LordLoveLength]

Think there may be some cheap ones on the market soon...
https://twitter.com/lincsfarm/status/6125363164593...