Garage Subsidence on Purchase - Help!
Discussion
Hi.
Hoping that someone may have been in a similar boat here, and can offer some advice.
We are close to exchange of contracts on the purchase of a 1960s property. It has a detached garage on the plot (it's next to the house, but in no way connected to the dwelling).
The homebuyers survey indicated signs of subsidence on the garage - and says that whilst it will continue to serve us for some years to come, it's not economically repairable.
We negotiated a £5,000 'allowance' from the seller (basically cashback at completion) towards having a new garage built. No problem. Until the lender asks what the allowance is for, we say to have a new garage built and they cotton on.
We're now in a very vicious triangle, as our current insurer (Legal and General) have said they won't even consider any of it.
I guess what we want is a policy that will disregard the garage. It will have nothing in it as such, so whatever. We just need a policy in place so we can move in - and THEN rectify the problems. As you can see from above, we can't do that until we move in.
Help!
Hoping that someone may have been in a similar boat here, and can offer some advice.
We are close to exchange of contracts on the purchase of a 1960s property. It has a detached garage on the plot (it's next to the house, but in no way connected to the dwelling).
The homebuyers survey indicated signs of subsidence on the garage - and says that whilst it will continue to serve us for some years to come, it's not economically repairable.
We negotiated a £5,000 'allowance' from the seller (basically cashback at completion) towards having a new garage built. No problem. Until the lender asks what the allowance is for, we say to have a new garage built and they cotton on.
We're now in a very vicious triangle, as our current insurer (Legal and General) have said they won't even consider any of it.
- We can't move in without insurance.
- We can't get insurance whilst the garage is still there.
- We can't knock down the current garage until we move in.
- We can't move in until we have insurance.
- We can't get insurance whilst the garage is still there.
- We can't knock down the current garage until we move in.
- We can't move in without insurance.
I guess what we want is a policy that will disregard the garage. It will have nothing in it as such, so whatever. We just need a policy in place so we can move in - and THEN rectify the problems. As you can see from above, we can't do that until we move in.
Help!
This was the next twist.
The property is currently insured via RIAS - who specialise in insurance for the over 50s.
What I'm not sure is whether they can discriminate against me on the grounds of age? I know there was a lot of broohaha over gender equality and car insurance, but this is all new to me.
The property is currently insured via RIAS - who specialise in insurance for the over 50s.
What I'm not sure is whether they can discriminate against me on the grounds of age? I know there was a lot of broohaha over gender equality and car insurance, but this is all new to me.
As per Elrico.
(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
TA14 - evidence of insurance from completion is invariably a pre-condition of drawing down mortgage funds. So in practice you won't have the money to complete if not insured.
Is it possible to insure the property with an exclusion of subsidence cover for the garage? If you could obtain that, would it be sufficient for the mortgagee? The only thing you can do is speak to your own solicitor.
Is it possible to insure the property with an exclusion of subsidence cover for the garage? If you could obtain that, would it be sufficient for the mortgagee? The only thing you can do is speak to your own solicitor.
Edited by Jobbo on Friday 22 May 08:21
TA14 said:
As per Elrico.
(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
Many lenders will refuse to lend without seeing a valid insurance policy in place.(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
Jobbo said:
TA14 - evidence of insurance from completion is invariably a pre-condition of drawing down mortgage funds. So in practice you won't have the money to complete if not insured.
That wasn't my point though. The OP needs to focus on the fact that he is trying to insure a property with a history of subsidence. If I lent the OP the money with no insurance or if he won the £235,000 on the lottery, he would still have the same problem. Similarly if the garage is knocked down (at any time) you still need to declare that there is a history of subsidence.98elise said:
1. Agree with insurers that there will be no garage to insure
2. Exchange contracts
3. Knock down garage
4. Insure house
5. Complete
The only risk to you is that you is that its a good idea to have insurance in place as soon as you exchange, as the vendors could be uninsured.
As above that doesn't deal with the problem that you need to declare a history of subsidence so deal with the issue now.2. Exchange contracts
3. Knock down garage
4. Insure house
5. Complete
The only risk to you is that you is that its a good idea to have insurance in place as soon as you exchange, as the vendors could be uninsured.
TA14 said:
You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable.
What was this about, if it wasn't your point?The property doesn't necessarily have a history of subsidence. The detached garage is to be knocked down and rebuilt, presumably no claim for subsidence has been or will be submitted, and the main house sounds perfectly OK. At a guess the garage was badly built. If there have been no claims for subsidence, you may well find that there's no issue insuring the house itself.
Just a little more colour here.
The garage has subsidence because it has no formal footings. The survey indicates that it is built on a concrete slab, and that the movement has happened because there have been trees removed to the rear of it.
It gets worse.
The company who currently insure the property WOULD insure the property, as they already do. However, they won't because they don't insure anybody with my occupation. Unbelievable.
Another specialist broker that deals with matters like this will likely get some cover, but with an increased excess for subsidence. The lender won't accept anything more than £1,000 so we're likely to still be in a stalemate situation.
I feel sick.
Thanks for your help so far.
The garage has subsidence because it has no formal footings. The survey indicates that it is built on a concrete slab, and that the movement has happened because there have been trees removed to the rear of it.
It gets worse.
The company who currently insure the property WOULD insure the property, as they already do. However, they won't because they don't insure anybody with my occupation. Unbelievable.
Another specialist broker that deals with matters like this will likely get some cover, but with an increased excess for subsidence. The lender won't accept anything more than £1,000 so we're likely to still be in a stalemate situation.
I feel sick.
Thanks for your help so far.
Have you tried getting a structural survey by a chartered engineer done? I do these a lot at pre purchase and as long as the cause of subsidence can be identified the sale can generally proceed.
That said I have surveyed properties that ended up at plot value only, but they were very dated and cracking all over. If all you have is an issue with a poorly built garage I'd expect a report to satisfy any insurer to pick up cover on the house.
That said I have surveyed properties that ended up at plot value only, but they were very dated and cracking all over. If all you have is an issue with a poorly built garage I'd expect a report to satisfy any insurer to pick up cover on the house.
BorniteIdentity said:
Just a little more colour here.
The garage has subsidence because it has no formal footings. The survey indicates that it is built on a concrete slab, and that the movement has happened because there have been trees removed to the rear of it.
It gets worse.
The company who currently insure the property WOULD insure the property, as they already do. However, they won't because they don't insure anybody with my occupation. Unbelievable.
Another specialist broker that deals with matters like this will likely get some cover, but with an increased excess for subsidence. The lender won't accept anything more than £1,000 so we're likely to still be in a stalemate situation.
I feel sick.
Thanks for your help so far.
Hmmm. You do seem to be in a bit of a fix. As I see it there are two routes to go. One is to try to get insurance declaring what you know now, as you have done, which seems to be very difficult. The other would be to have a full structural report done: full details of the garage foundations and the house foundations including soil conditions which can then be presented to show that there is no risk (mind you if the report says that there is a higher than normal risk you're worse of than ever.) How much do you want the house.The garage has subsidence because it has no formal footings. The survey indicates that it is built on a concrete slab, and that the movement has happened because there have been trees removed to the rear of it.
It gets worse.
The company who currently insure the property WOULD insure the property, as they already do. However, they won't because they don't insure anybody with my occupation. Unbelievable.
Another specialist broker that deals with matters like this will likely get some cover, but with an increased excess for subsidence. The lender won't accept anything more than £1,000 so we're likely to still be in a stalemate situation.
I feel sick.
Thanks for your help so far.
TA14 said:
As per Elrico.
(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
I'll quote the whole thing - the meaning's unchanged. What did you mean? You can't move in without insurance if you're getting a mortgage, full stop.(Your list looks like it's done in a panic. You can move in without insurance, it's just not usually advisable. You normally insure from exchange, not completion. Knocking donw the garage now wouldn't help anyway because you'd still have to say that there was a subsidence issue.)
Spudler said:
Specialist insurer.
You don't have time to have a structural survey carried out , which will include inspection holes etc.
Pay a bit more for insurance-move in-rebuild garage-change insurance on renewal.
Fine, if we can find an insurer that will do it with an excess of £1,000 or less for subsidence. Otherwise the lender won't accept it.You don't have time to have a structural survey carried out , which will include inspection holes etc.
Pay a bit more for insurance-move in-rebuild garage-change insurance on renewal.
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