Fence being used as retaining wall by neighbours
Discussion
At the bottom of our garden there is a fence, consisting of gravel boards slotted into concrete posts about 170cm high (from ground level on our side). I have ascertained that this fence was built by the previous owner of our house so belongs to me.
The properties in the road behind us are at a higher level so their back gardens slope down towards our house. I noticed recently that the fence is starting to lean a fair bit into our garden. It appears that the ground on the other side of the fence has been built up what looks like about 2 feet higher than the ground on our side, using the fence as a retaining wall. Obviously it was never designed or constructed to be used in this way. There are two small sheds built backing up to the fence on his side on top of the levelled area.
I've made the owner of the house behind us aware of the state of the fence and he agrees it's an issue but was basically of the opinion that its "your fence, your problem".
If the fence needs replacing or rebuilding due to him building up the ground on his side would he have any sort of responsibility to help sort it out? In my mind he needs to build his own retaining wall rather than rely on my fence. If I just take the fence out completely (don't want it falling on my little boy) would he have to build a new wall to support his garden or would be down to me?
The properties in the road behind us are at a higher level so their back gardens slope down towards our house. I noticed recently that the fence is starting to lean a fair bit into our garden. It appears that the ground on the other side of the fence has been built up what looks like about 2 feet higher than the ground on our side, using the fence as a retaining wall. Obviously it was never designed or constructed to be used in this way. There are two small sheds built backing up to the fence on his side on top of the levelled area.
I've made the owner of the house behind us aware of the state of the fence and he agrees it's an issue but was basically of the opinion that its "your fence, your problem".
If the fence needs replacing or rebuilding due to him building up the ground on his side would he have any sort of responsibility to help sort it out? In my mind he needs to build his own retaining wall rather than rely on my fence. If I just take the fence out completely (don't want it falling on my little boy) would he have to build a new wall to support his garden or would be down to me?
Simple answer would be to wait till it collapses and then claim against his insurance. Up to him not to damage your property, easier if you have any photos etc. showing there was no build up behind the fence when it was constructed but can't really see him digging it all out unless he has to. Write to him with the situation and that he would be liable for any injury or damage caused by the collapse. Check with the citizens advice (most reply to email), if it is unsafe on your side of the fence they may advice the council that the owner needs to dig out behind the fence or install a retaining wall on his side.
Just because it was built by your predecessor doesn't mean its owned by you. It will depend on what the deeds say and whether it is on the boundary or inside your land.
If he accepts that the fence is yours and his actions damage it, then I would see that its reasonable for you to expect to recovers your losses.
There is something in law about building up land and rights of support, if I speak to my property lawyer today I will ask him.
If he accepts that the fence is yours and his actions damage it, then I would see that its reasonable for you to expect to recovers your losses.
There is something in law about building up land and rights of support, if I speak to my property lawyer today I will ask him.
Edited by blueg33 on Friday 29th May 12:28
blueg33 said:
Just because it was built by your predecessor doesn't mean its owned by you. It will depend on what the deeds say and whether it is on the boundary or inside your land.
Very much this. It is important to ascertain who actually owns the fence according to the deeds. Just because you replaced or repaired the fence doesn't make it yours.Edited by blueg33 on Friday 29th May 12:28
I replaced all my fencing some years ago despite one side not belonging to me as I wanted it all matching and decent quality. Neighbours obviously didn't mind as they got a new fence for free and it was my choice to change them but it remains their property not mine.
There's a difference between who owns the land that the fence is on and who owns the actual fence though. If your predecessor put the fence up, he owns it and sold it to you, whether you bought the land with it or not. So when the fence collapses it's still damage to your property, though he might argue that your fence was a trespass and it's now been returned to you.
Anyway, does your neighbour not need planning permission to alter the ground level by more than 300mm? I think that's been mentioned on here before. You could make the council aware and get them to take enforcement action as a last resort.
What about removing your fence as a starting point. As the land subsides, shovel it back onto his garden. While you're returning his property you might as well nibble a few inches away and see how much of the land you can claim as 'compensation'.
Anyway, does your neighbour not need planning permission to alter the ground level by more than 300mm? I think that's been mentioned on here before. You could make the council aware and get them to take enforcement action as a last resort.
What about removing your fence as a starting point. As the land subsides, shovel it back onto his garden. While you're returning his property you might as well nibble a few inches away and see how much of the land you can claim as 'compensation'.
The Moose said:
Interesting view point - I'm just considering this from the other side of the fence so to speak (yep, intended!). In fact, I was considering making a thread on this - in fact, I will do to save hijacking your thread.
After seeing your thread, just come to post on this. damnit.illmonkey said:
The Moose said:
Interesting view point - I'm just considering this from the other side of the fence so to speak (yep, intended!). In fact, I was considering making a thread on this - in fact, I will do to save hijacking your thread.
After seeing your thread, just come to post on this. damnit.valiant said:
Very much this. It is important to ascertain who actually owns the fence according to the deeds. Just because you replaced or repaired the fence doesn't make it yours.
I replaced all my fencing some years ago despite one side not belonging to me as I wanted it all matching and decent quality. Neighbours obviously didn't mind as they got a new fence for free and it was my choice to change them but it remains their property not mine.
Presumably if it's on the boundary. If it's inside the bounday, even a little, I'd have thought it was nothing to do wih the neighbour.I replaced all my fencing some years ago despite one side not belonging to me as I wanted it all matching and decent quality. Neighbours obviously didn't mind as they got a new fence for free and it was my choice to change them but it remains their property not mine.
similar situation happened with my parents.
Developers built a row of new houses on higher ground behind theirs. To give the new houses a level garden they built a retaining wall of scaffolding boards about 1m from my parents boundary and piled earth up against it.
Trying to talk to the new owners or the developers got them nowhere. The local council planning department said it was nothing to do with them. So they had to lawyer up.
After a letter to the owners and developers they built a proper retaining wall.
Developers built a row of new houses on higher ground behind theirs. To give the new houses a level garden they built a retaining wall of scaffolding boards about 1m from my parents boundary and piled earth up against it.
Trying to talk to the new owners or the developers got them nowhere. The local council planning department said it was nothing to do with them. So they had to lawyer up.
After a letter to the owners and developers they built a proper retaining wall.
guindilias said:
Don't do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpDG8QjoK-A
This makes me feel sick every time someone posts it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpDG8QjoK-A
Dont mean to hijack your thread but this is really interesting.
Im in the midst of buying our "forever house" as Mrs Dan calls it, and the one thing I have brought up with the solicitor that is dragging things out is the ownership of such a wall the same of yours.
this one is 5 concrete sections high and supports possibly the worst garage extension next door i have ever seen. The wall is bowing and has been reinforced a few times, when you look at the houses from the road you can see the extension is dipping towards my soon to be garden.
Its the only snagging point for me on an otherwise perfect house and i dont really care if their extension falls into my garden... but Im not paying to fix it!!
I have spoken to the council and there was never any PP applied for so I do have an angle of attack if I need to do something about it.
let us all know how you get on.
Im in the midst of buying our "forever house" as Mrs Dan calls it, and the one thing I have brought up with the solicitor that is dragging things out is the ownership of such a wall the same of yours.
this one is 5 concrete sections high and supports possibly the worst garage extension next door i have ever seen. The wall is bowing and has been reinforced a few times, when you look at the houses from the road you can see the extension is dipping towards my soon to be garden.
Its the only snagging point for me on an otherwise perfect house and i dont really care if their extension falls into my garden... but Im not paying to fix it!!
I have spoken to the council and there was never any PP applied for so I do have an angle of attack if I need to do something about it.
let us all know how you get on.
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