Establishing ownership of a strip of land
Discussion
We have lived in our current house for 19 years. At the bottom of the garden is an old field boundary hedge which pre-dates the house. There is a fence on our side of the hedge. 3 houses back onto our garden (built at around the same time) and they also have a fence on their side of the trees. This leaves a 2m wide strip of land between the 2 fences. The hedge is really a row of trees. I like it as it prevents the houses behind overlooking our garden. One of our neighbours would like to have one of the trees removed as it overshadows their garden. Assuming it was on our land, they have approached us to ask us if we would deal with it. We said that it is not ours, but we would look into the issue and come to an agreement on how to deal with it. We have since approached the local council, the land registry and the original developers who built the house. No-one can tell us who the land belongs to! The map below (from the council planning portal) shows the piece of land in question. Our property is bottom right.The narrow strip to the left of our garden on this map is ours now, and the addition of this piece of land (previously a footpath) to our property is all correctly documented.
Are there any conventions on what to do in this situation? The developers say that, for sure, it is not theirs, as do the council. The Land Registry map is surprisingly vague and does not show the hedge as a distinct area, unlike the map above.
Part of me thinks that we say "Ok, it is ours", we pay to deal with the trees (topping, NOT cutting down) and then we have "acquired" an extra chunk of garden! What we want to avoid is someone destroying the trees/hedge, though I can understand that as they are closer to the other houses, and on the south side, they do steal a lot of light.
For what it is worth, one of the houses to the north, the one at the left hand edge of the strip, and not directly behind us, has annexed the bit behind his garden by removing the fence and clearing undergrowth. He currently has a shed on the land.
Any advice gratefully received!
Are there any conventions on what to do in this situation? The developers say that, for sure, it is not theirs, as do the council. The Land Registry map is surprisingly vague and does not show the hedge as a distinct area, unlike the map above.
Part of me thinks that we say "Ok, it is ours", we pay to deal with the trees (topping, NOT cutting down) and then we have "acquired" an extra chunk of garden! What we want to avoid is someone destroying the trees/hedge, though I can understand that as they are closer to the other houses, and on the south side, they do steal a lot of light.
For what it is worth, one of the houses to the north, the one at the left hand edge of the strip, and not directly behind us, has annexed the bit behind his garden by removing the fence and clearing undergrowth. He currently has a shed on the land.
Any advice gratefully received!
What is the age of the properties surrounding the strip?
The older they are the more likely that the original owner (or their heirs / assigns / successors) is either dead or disinterested, even unaware of that strip of land.
The land registry have only been populating their database of title deeds for about the last 15 - 20 years as transfers of title take place.
I would be tempted to take possession by enclosure - that is to say to take down your fence adjacent and tend that land as if it was your own. After the period of time, I think 12 years, passes (without challenge) it is yours. Obviously there is a legal due process, but if you have evidence, say photos and a witnessed statement showing / stating when your period of enclosure began you just have to count away the years until it is yours.
Given the approach by your neighbours they think you already are the de-facto owner - why disabuse them.
If I was you I would be googling taking possession of land by enclosure, removing that fence ASAP and searching out those old 35mm photos you took 12 years ago and the statement you made showing you enclosed the land then and now be proceeding with formalising matters.
The older they are the more likely that the original owner (or their heirs / assigns / successors) is either dead or disinterested, even unaware of that strip of land.
The land registry have only been populating their database of title deeds for about the last 15 - 20 years as transfers of title take place.
I would be tempted to take possession by enclosure - that is to say to take down your fence adjacent and tend that land as if it was your own. After the period of time, I think 12 years, passes (without challenge) it is yours. Obviously there is a legal due process, but if you have evidence, say photos and a witnessed statement showing / stating when your period of enclosure began you just have to count away the years until it is yours.
Given the approach by your neighbours they think you already are the de-facto owner - why disabuse them.
If I was you I would be googling taking possession of land by enclosure, removing that fence ASAP and searching out those old 35mm photos you took 12 years ago and the statement you made showing you enclosed the land then and now be proceeding with formalising matters.
Some years ago my parents had a dispute with a neighbour over a boundary hedge -the Land Registry were unhelpful as the maps weren't that accurate. What it came down to in the end was that as my parents were clearly on the higher side it belonged to them.
What you do if the land is flat bests me.
What you do if the land is flat bests me.
mad4amanda said:
looking at that plan I would guess the 2 strips of land were left as alleyways providing rear access the 1930s estate I grew up on had them everywhere they have now all gone and been enclosed as suggested above . I would do the same if it were me . How old are the houses?
that's quite conceivable from the map / plan shown ...mph1977 said:
mad4amanda said:
looking at that plan I would guess the 2 strips of land were left as alleyways providing rear access the 1930s estate I grew up on had them everywhere they have now all gone and been enclosed as suggested above . I would do the same if it were me . How old are the houses?
that's quite conceivable from the map / plan shown ...jon h said:
A big thank you to both Muncher and Blueg33 for offering to look into this for me. Muncher, with access to the right information, was able to answer the query in a matter of minutes. I also now have the necessary information to dig further if we need to.
Thanks again guys,
Jon
I assume therefore it's registered, but am confused as to why your initial Land Registry enquiry failed. I'd expected it to be unregistered.Thanks again guys,
Jon
I expected it to be registered as its a recentish development and its rare for a developer to leave bits unregistered.
Its hard to search strips on the land registry site because its tricky to narrow down the actual address of the land and match it up with the description given next to the title number, but the business version has a few more tools that are a big help.
Its hard to search strips on the land registry site because its tricky to narrow down the actual address of the land and match it up with the description given next to the title number, but the business version has a few more tools that are a big help.
blueg33 said:
Its hard to search strips on the land registry site because its tricky to narrow down the actual address of the land and match it up with the description given next to the title number, but the business version has a few more tools that are a big help.
The interface is a bit clunky, but their INSPIRE polygon mapping service is free to use and gets you the ID number of the parcel which you can can pop into their website:http://data.gov.uk/dataset/land-registry-inspire-s...
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff