Bit of an issue with neighbour...legal issue?
Discussion
TBH it sounds like both of you are being tools about it.
Our neighbour has access rights across our land, in the deeds - when we put up a big fence, we put a gate in it for them and asked how they wanted access. We discussed what they wanted, and agreed that they only wanted access from the 'inside' as their boundary isn't enclosed, so they didn't want people using it as an entrance to our/their property), but if they decided they wanted it from both sides, then we'd damned well have to oblige. This was made crystal clear when we were going through the house buying process, and was the main reason for the hold up in exchange!
I'm pretty sure you'd be on pretty dodgy ground legally if you barred access tot heir right of way, which, being pedantic, is kind of what you've done.
Our neighbour has access rights across our land, in the deeds - when we put up a big fence, we put a gate in it for them and asked how they wanted access. We discussed what they wanted, and agreed that they only wanted access from the 'inside' as their boundary isn't enclosed, so they didn't want people using it as an entrance to our/their property), but if they decided they wanted it from both sides, then we'd damned well have to oblige. This was made crystal clear when we were going through the house buying process, and was the main reason for the hold up in exchange!
I'm pretty sure you'd be on pretty dodgy ground legally if you barred access tot heir right of way, which, being pedantic, is kind of what you've done.
dirty boy said:
I'm fully prepared to back down here if people think I'm being unreasonable, which appears to be the consensus here.
I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. To add a different perspective to this, I live in a mid terraced Victorian property and have access through my next door neighbours garden so I can use the side gate.I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
I have a very large garage at the rear of the property which is the full width of the property and leads on to an access road. Like most houses, even old ones like we have, it came equipped with a front door so can also use this to get in and out of the property.
We respect our neighbours privacy, so only use the side access twice a week. Once for putting the bin out, the second time to bring it back in again. Despite the fact we are legally allowed to use this access, we don't want our neighbours to feel they can't enjoy their privacy as not only do we have to walk through their garden, we have to walk right past a kitchen window, dining room sliding doors and a large door leading in to their living room.
We have a fairly hefty gate that leads in to their garden which belongs to us which we can bolt and lock. On a few occasions, they have left their side gate open and from time to time, the large gates they have that lead on to the access road. The access road is public so exposes the rear of the property to all and sundry. This irritates me slightly as this makes the back of my property more accessible. My garage is the whole width of the garden so blocks access off to the house completely other than coming through the garage, but if they leave anything open, then somebody can come in to their garden and easily climb my gate. I have two Dobermanns, one a very territorial male, so not a good gate to climb over, but nevertheless, them leaving gates open makes my property more exposed.
Basically, despite being the person who has access across next door's property, I'd be very happy if they kept it closed which they do most of the time or went a step further and put a key lock on it on the outside.
We get on with the neighbours well and do dine with them fairly regularly. He's a lovely chap, got a modded C63, she's lovely and fit...and no I'm not posting any pics....both great people and love them to bits as friends and neighbours.
If we didn't have a good relationship and did make regular use of the side access, if we found we were in a similar position, we'd pop around and have a word, or pop a note through the door. While you could have managed things a bit better by communicating the gate was going back up, the next logical step would be for him to have his say before resorting to booting things and getting a hammer out. Incidentally, if my neighbour didn't have the gate up for a while and then put it back, I probably wouldn't expect him to consult me about it beforehand, but would like to think that I could get through it without too much hassle.
My partner and I are pretty reasonable people, but your neighbour sounds like a dick. Even if you did piss him off, there's better ways of handling it.
Andehh said:
GO round with a crate of beer, apologies profusely for the miss understanding and ask him if he has any suggestion son improving security but without hindering him? Suggest some of the options above & see if he takes kindly to any of them in particular?
Seems like the only logical option.dirty boy said:
I'm fully prepared to back down here if people think I'm being unreasonable, which appears to be the consensus here.
I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
As ever with PH, everyone is deliberately ignoring the salient part of your argument which is that the gate has always been there with a lock on. It's like every time you type it is completely invisible to the majority of posters.I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
THe answer to your question is commonsense.
1) He has a right to have it unlocked if he wants.
2)Instead of asking you like a grown up, he is behaving like a complete childish w
ker3) You need to make the choice as to whether to respond in kind or rise above it but whichever you choose, he has the law on his side (purely at a guess)
If it were me I would probably take the moral high ground and ask him whether you have pissed him off in some way and how he would like to resolve it. Although it's easy for me to say that when I haven't had my gate kicked in. I might also go the other way and get childish myself.
Locking the gate is OK.....you are within your rights to "control and limit access to only those with granted rights to pass over", I know as (as said above) I have a similar problem and I checked.
BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
blindswelledrat said:
dirty boy said:
I'm fully prepared to back down here if people think I'm being unreasonable, which appears to be the consensus here.
I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
As ever with PH, everyone is deliberately ignoring the salient part of your argument which is that the gate has always been there with a lock on. It's like every time you type it is completely invisible to the majority of posters.I don't see that there's a lack of communication because all I've done is put things back as they were. He's then gone and kicked it in and then hammered them off the week after.
How am I meant to 'communicate' with a someone who's not even attempted to speak to me before taking actions? I don't think it's normal behaviour, I certainly wouldn't dream of it.
THe answer to your question is commonsense.
1) He has a right to have it unlocked if he wants.
2)Instead of asking you like a grown up, he is behaving like a complete childish w
ker3) You need to make the choice as to whether to respond in kind or rise above it but whichever you choose, he has the law on his side (purely at a guess)
If it were me I would probably take the moral high ground and ask him whether you have pissed him off in some way and how he would like to resolve it. Although it's easy for me to say that when I haven't had my gate kicked in. I might also go the other way and get childish myself.
The bloke took a hammer to the gate and kicked it in rather than coming round to discuss things like an adult.
Stickyfinger said:
Locking the gate is OK.....you are within your rights to "control and limit access to only those with granted rights to pass over", I know as (as said above) I have a similar problem and I checked.
BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
It is not black and white, you can't assume that giving him a key is enough. if he expected deliveries or collections for example, the postman or milkman, how would that be possible with a locked gate?BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
essayer said:
Stickyfinger said:
Locking the gate is OK.....you are within your rights to "control and limit access to only those with granted rights to pass over", I know as (as said above) I have a similar problem and I checked.
BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
It is not black and white, you can't assume that giving him a key is enough. if he expected deliveries or collections for example, the postman or milkman, how would that be possible with a locked gate?BUT
You must give him a Key and a Spare to allow his "unimpaired access" as is allowed by your deeds. This is STANDARD Practice./
Edited by Autopilot on Saturday 1st August 08:14
why are the majority of the posters here referring to the Bolt as a lock ?
I don't see what the issue is, the BOLT is stopping the gate from opening being freely or in the wind, it is also stopping the OPs child from leaving the garden,
removing the gate and putting a fixed fence panel in place would be preventing access.
If the neighbour has difficulties in operating a simple bolt mechanism how do you think he will cope with a key ?
Op if you have to go round and speak to him then do but I wouldn't be taking a crate of beer round (I don't understand the obsession here with that)
Just to add if someone was to come round mine with a create of beer because I had an issue with something they did to talk it through they'd end up coming round every weekend with a new create for other issues.
I don't see what the issue is, the BOLT is stopping the gate from opening being freely or in the wind, it is also stopping the OPs child from leaving the garden,
removing the gate and putting a fixed fence panel in place would be preventing access.
If the neighbour has difficulties in operating a simple bolt mechanism how do you think he will cope with a key ?
Op if you have to go round and speak to him then do but I wouldn't be taking a crate of beer round (I don't understand the obsession here with that)
Just to add if someone was to come round mine with a create of beer because I had an issue with something they did to talk it through they'd end up coming round every weekend with a new create for other issues.
Edited by colinjy on Wednesday 5th August 15:13
colinjy said:
why are the majority of the posters here referring to the Bolt as a lock ?
I don't see what the issue is, the BOLT is stopping the gate from opening being freely or in the wind, it is also stopping the OPs child from leaving the garden,
removing the gate and putting a fixed fence panel in place would be preventing access.
If the neighbour has difficulties in operating a simple bolt mechanism how do you think he will cope with a key ?
Op if you have to go round and speak to him then do but I wouldn't be taking a crate of beer round (I don't understand the obsession here with that)
Just to add if someone was to come round mine with a create of beer because I had an issue with something they did to talk it through they'd end up coming round every weekend with a new create for other issues.
The neighbour has the right to use access from either direction, a bolt on one side doesn't allow that, and is an unlawful interference.I don't see what the issue is, the BOLT is stopping the gate from opening being freely or in the wind, it is also stopping the OPs child from leaving the garden,
removing the gate and putting a fixed fence panel in place would be preventing access.
If the neighbour has difficulties in operating a simple bolt mechanism how do you think he will cope with a key ?
Op if you have to go round and speak to him then do but I wouldn't be taking a crate of beer round (I don't understand the obsession here with that)
Just to add if someone was to come round mine with a create of beer because I had an issue with something they did to talk it through they'd end up coming round every weekend with a new create for other issues.
Edited by colinjy on Wednesday 5th August 15:13
Mr GrimNasty said:
and is an unlawful interference.
NOT with a lock it is not, if the Locked gate would NOT prevent the normal accessing of his property via the issued Right of Way, then yes you can fit a lock, the best way being a code lock.A locked gate on a pedestrian ROW is not regarded as "substantial interference" with the ROW if said ROW does not grant "Public Access" such as to a front door for example.
However you could be a total ar@@ and fit this
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